Print

Print


>As of this moment I've actually read very little of him (other than what
>I'm reading for the report I'm currently in the middle of).  And I'm
>probably one of the youngest people on here (guess that sums it up...).
>
>thanks for your time,
>Ericka... :-)
>

Ericka,
        Personally, I'm happy to have tse ers of all ages and degrees of
interest
send me mail.  If I were doing the paper you are, I would start by looking at
the introduction to whatever eliot work you choose.  Editors and introducers
often give interesting bibliographic 'tips' about where to find the types of 
scholarship that pertain to your topic, if nothing else (some give more than
others).  There are 'some' resources for Eliot on the Internet but the 'real'
library still has it beat (concerning Eliot).

---------------------------------------------------------------------
This is not a sig.file.  It's, uh, part of my rhetoric!
Yeah, yeah, that's it!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Brice Matson ([log in to unmask])
Wild World Web -- http://www.missouri.edu/~c594600

========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 22 Nov 1995 11:00:09 -0500 (EST)
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         James F Loucks <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      strange gods again
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Content-Length: 324       

Yes, I was of course aware of the Kipling volume, but it was a volume of verse;
TSE probably re-read RK's stories in connection with his extension lectures 
long before that. Seeing the words "Strange Gods" in 1933 may have had 
something to do with his re-use of them a few months later.

[log in to unmask]

========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 22 Nov 1995 13:31:25 -0600
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         [log in to unmask] (Timothy Materer)
Subject:      A Salamander not a Lizard; Feelings, Ordinary Feelings
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

1.  Prof. Cooper: naturally I wouldn't compromise the intellectual
integrity of this list with a vulgar book plug!   Nor would you of
course--we're just being informative. (By the way, that's a salamander not
a lizard on the cover & remember to bring your checkbook and take advantage
of the MLA discount!)

2. I'm grateful for the comments on feelings and emotions in Eliot. It
always seems to interest students to talk about what Eliot means by these
terms. Then the class can go on to how all this relates to E's conception
of the image. You can skip the notes below (from Frank Kermode's collection
of his essays), which are only meant to show that the sequence seems to be:

sensation-->feeling-->emotion ("Immediate experience" is of course prior to
everything but we can't "experience" it.)

Emotion and Feeling:
Relation of word and emotion  54
Coleridge's philosophy as a matter of his emotions  56
emotions becoming cruder (dissoc. of sensibility)  65
ideas and emotions in Shelley  83
fringe of feeling  145
ideas and feelings in Henry James  152
relation of emotion to object to Marvell  167
Tennyson's feelings more honest than his mind 245

Sensation and feeling:
immediate experience  35
relation of sensory experience to emotion  48
word and sensation 54, 156
sensuous appeal of thought  63
dissoc. of sensibility  64
writing the nervous system  66
images saturated with feeling  90
depths of feeling into which we cannot peer  91
unnamed feelings  96
relations of sensation and word  157
Milton's lack of fusion of auditory with other senses 262
experiencing hell through sensory images
music, idea, image  114

I may be off on a few page #s--dont have my book here

Timothy Materer
Director of Lower Division Studies
882-2356  Fall office hours:
MWF 10:40-11:40 and by appt.

========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 25 Nov 1995 09:42:10 -0700 (MST)
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         Mar Ninneman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Request for Information
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I am writing a paper in a master's class at the University of New Mexico 
in which I am using *T. S. Eliot's Silent Voices* by John T. Mayer, 
published by Oxford University Press in 1989.  I would like to 
incorporate a brief biographical profile of the author, but am unable to 
find anything about him using standard library sources.  Does anyone know 
anything about this author?

Thanks

Martha Ninneman

========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 28 Nov 1995 08:22:24 -0600
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         "Greg Foster" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Request for Information (John T. Mayer bio)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Martha Ninneman wrote: 
> I am writing a paper in a master's class at the University of New
> Mexico in which I am using *T. S. Eliot's Silent Voices* by John T.
> Mayer, published by Oxford University Press in 1989.  I would like
> to incorporate a brief biographical profile of the author, but am
> unable to find anything about him using standard library sources. 
> Does anyone know anything about this author?
> 
Short answer: no.  The dust jacket on my copy of his book says he is 
Associate Professor of English at Holy Cross College.  The LOC entry 
says he was born in 1933.  The rest is silence.

I tried to find a web site or gopher server at Holy Cross that could
tell us more, but there was nothing (or nothing for English).

Good luck!

Greg

___________________________________________________________
Greg Foster                  | "Fine art is the refinement,
<[log in to unmask]>  | not the antithesis, of
TSE <[log in to unmask]> | popular art." -- T. S. Eliot

========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 28 Nov 1995 13:04:23 -0500 (EST)
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         James F Loucks <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      JT Mayer
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Content-Length: 403       

You might be able to find an entry on John T. Mayer in the Directory of 
American Scholars...but if my search is correct, the DAS stops at 1982. If this
is the case, you'd probably have to write to Mayer and get him to update his 
bio. The MLA Directory might have his current address if different from the one
in the dust jacket of his book (Holy Cross). Good luck.  
[log in to unmask]

========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 28 Nov 1995 19:29:44 -0600
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         "Greg Foster" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Query: "The Mongol in our midst"
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

In his January 1927 review "Charleston, Hey! Hey!" Eliot says of
John Rodker that he is "up to the minute, if anyone is; we feel sure
that he knows all about hormones, W. H. R. Rivers, and the Mongol in
our midst."  Later that year, in a September letter to Bonamy
Dobree, he jokes that he is preparing a little book entitled _The
Bolovian in Our Midst_, "proving that there was Bolovian blood in
some of the leading figures of the day."  (The latter description is
Robert Crawford's; I have not seen the letter in question).

I know I have seen this phrase ("the Mongol in our midst") before,
and I would bet it has to do with the racist rhetoric of that branch
of modern anthropology that associated more "primitive" cultures with
evolutionary inferiority and prattled about degeneration, but I
can't find the references anywhere. Can anyone refresh my memory?  
Who popularized the phrase "the Mongol in our midst"?

Thanks in advance,

Greg

___________________________________________________________
Greg Foster                  | "Fine art is the refinement,
<[log in to unmask]>  | not the antithesis, of
TSE <[log in to unmask]> | popular art." -- T. S. Eliot

========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 28 Nov 1995 18:59:23 -0800
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         Alexander Justice <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Query: "The Mongol in our midst"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Greg et al, hello! 
I am just taking a stab at this, but there are Mongol ancestors in 
European royalty (i.e. the Windsors). This comes via Russia; I have seen 
the charts, but don't recall precisely how it gets there. Of course, this 
means descent from various Khans, not lowly Mongols.

>I know I have seen this phrase ("the Mongol in our midst") before,
>and I would bet it has to do with the racist rhetoric of that branch
>of modern anthropology that associated more "primitive" cultures with
>evolutionary inferiority and prattled about degeneration, but I
>can't find the references anywhere. Can anyone refresh my memory?  
>Who popularized the phrase "the Mongol in our midst"?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Greg

Alexander Justice * Redlands, California, USA
[log in to unmask] * http://www.empirenet.com/~jahvah/

"It's just tormenting the people with trivia!!!" 
--Napoleon I on the metric system

========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 29 Nov 95 08:42:48 MST
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         "Peter Quigley" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re[2]: Query: "The Mongol in our midst"
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

I need to repeat a question I made a while ago if I may.

I am interested in any work that has been done on the Waste Land, and 
environmentalism, and/or anthropocentrism. The regeneration myth seems to be 
totally human driven in Eliot, that is the land depends on man not the other way 
around.

========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 29 Nov 95 08:49:57 MST
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         "Peter Quigley" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re[2]: ELIOT AND FIRE
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

_______________________________________________________________________________

Subject: Re: ELIOT AND FIRE

From:    [log in to unmask] at Internet-Mail

Date:    11/21/95  7:40 AM

In response to Peter Quigley from St. Mary's about using _The Wasteland_ in
conjunction with Robinson Jeffers' _Double Axe_ and Snyder's 
_Myths and Texts._

In a message dated 95-11-20 18:47:45 EST, you write:

On the one hand, the poem does not end on a hopeless note. 

I WAS ALLOWING MY BIASES TO FORGE BY RHETORIC. DEATH KNELL FOR NATURE IN THE 
SENSE OF THERE BEING SUCH A COMPLETE HUMANISTIC UNDERSTANDING OF THE PURPOSES OF 
NATURE 

On the other hand, there is such a strong identity of the state of man and
the state of nature that I don't think anyone could successfully demonstrate
that there is a significant distinction made between them in the poem.

I THINK THIS IS MY POINT THAT NATURE IS SUBSUMED BY ELIOT DEMONSTRATING HIS 
ROMANTIC HERITAGE (EMERSON'S "NATURE IS MADE TO SERVE" OUR PLASTIC AND RESHAPING 
ENERGIES)

I'm curious about the way you use "environmental sense." I'd appreciate it if
you'd elaborate a bit on it and how you are using it in a kind of opposition
to "anthropocentric." 

I AM SUGGESTING THAT THERE IS A TRADITION ESTABLISHED IN SNYDER, JEFFERS, ET. 
AL. WHERE INDDED HUMANKIND IS SEEN AS PART OF BUT CERTAINLY NOT THE MEASURE OF 
NATURE. MY SENSE IS THAT ELIOT'S MYTHOLOGY PUTS HUMAN WELL BEING IN THE CENTER 
WHERE OTHER VERSIONS OF THE REGENERATION MYTH SEE NATURE IN THE CENTER, I.E. ARE 
DRIVEN BY AN EARTH CENTERED ETHIC INSTEAD OF A HUMANIST ONE.  THE COMPARISON 
WITH AMERICAN INDIANS TO WHITE SETTLERS COMES TO MIND WITH THE HUMAN IN THE 
MIDDLE AND ALL OF NATURE BIRDS TREES ETC REVOLVE AROUND HIM, WHERE IN FACT EARTH 
IS IN THE MIDDLE FOR NATIVE AMERICANS WITH THE ANIMLAS INCLUDING MAN REVOLVES 
AROUND IT... 

      Gabrielle Loperfido
      UNC Chapel Hill

========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 29 Nov 95 08:56:19 MST
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         "Peter Quigley" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      ELIOT AND NATURE
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

SORRY TO RESEND BUT I THOUGHT A CORRECT SUBJECT HEADING WAS NEEDED

_______________________________________________________________________________

Subject: Re[2]: Query: "The Mongol in our midst"

From:    [log in to unmask] at Internet-Mail

Date:    11/29/95  8:42 AM

I need to repeat a question I made a while ago if I may.

I am interested in any work that has been done on the Waste Land, and 
environmentalism, and/or anthropocentrism. The regeneration myth seems to be 
totally human driven in Eliot, that is the land depends on man not the other way

around.