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To add to Catherine Paul's query, I wonder if anyone knows of any English
translations of these.  I don't recall having come across any.  It would be
particularly interesting to see how the translator would work around Eliot's
own mapping of the Phlebas bit of "Dans le Restaurant" to *The Waste Land.*

Kenneth Kreutzer     Kent, Ohio
([log in to unmask])

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Date:         Mon, 20 Nov 1995 11:10:14 +0000 (ADT4AST)
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         "J. Russell Perkin" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Introduction
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

This new list is a pleasant excuse for putting off a
few of those end of semester tasks that always loom so
large.  I teach English at Saint Mary's university,
where I teach courses in the novel, Victorian
literature, and literary criticism and theory.  My main
research interest is in Victorian literature and
religion, and a more general interest in Christianity
and literature has given me a longstanding fascination
with Eliot.  He is a writer whom I loved as an
undergraduate, reacted against as a graduate student,
and have recently re-read with renewed, though more
qualified, admiration.  I will be teaching Eliot for
six weeks in a senior course on the Theory and Practice
of Criticism next semester, so I am very pleased that
this list has just appeared.

-------------------------------------------------------------
J. Russell Perkin
Department of English
Saint Mary's University
N.S., Canada
B3H 3C3

[log in to unmask]
-------------------------------------------------------------

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Date:         Mon, 20 Nov 1995 12:46:18 
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         "William Mishler" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      information
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Is there some place on the Web where you can get Eliot's texts?

Thanks,
Bill

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Date:         Mon, 20 Nov 1995 12:52:47 -0600
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         "Greg Foster" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Eliot's French Poems
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Quoth Kenneth Kreutzer <[log in to unmask]>:
> To add to Catherine Paul's query, I wonder if anyone knows of any
> English translations of these.  I don't recall having come across
> any.  

The only one I've seen in English translation is "Dans le 
restaurant," which A. D. Moody translated in his 1977 study of Eliot. 
In the hope that this falls within the bounds of fair use, I include 
his translation below.

As to the others, I had to resort to translating them myself, purely
for my own reference and without a great deal of confidence in the
accuracy of the results.  Perhaps we can join forces, compare notes, 
scare up some TSE subscribers truly fluent in French?

Greg Foster
====================================================================

In the Restaurant (trans. A. D. Moody)

He was a scarecrow waiter with nothing better to do
Than scratch his knuckles, and perch himself at my shoulder:
  'It will be rainy where I come from,
  Wind, and a burst of sun, then rain-
  They call it the tramps' washing day.'
(Stoop-backed, dribbling driveller
At least stop dribbling in my soup.)
  'Dripping willows, buds on the briars,
  You take cover there when there's a shower.
I was seven, she was littler.
  She got soaked, I picked primroses for her.'
I count up to thirty-eight spots on his waistcoat.
  'I tickled her, to make her laugh.
  I felt such power for a moment, such rapture.'

  At that age? come off it, you dirty old man . . .
'What happened was tough, sir.
  A big dog came up and pawed at us,
  And I was frightened-left her where she was.
  It was such a pity.'
    What, you have your vulture as well!
Scratch the dirt from the wrinkles in your face,
Here, take my fork to your filthy skull.
What right have you to pay for it as I do?
Here's a penny for the Public Baths.

Phlebas the Phoenician, a fortnight drowned,
Forgot the cries of gulls and the Cornish surge,
The cargo of tin and the profit and the loss;
A current undersea carried him down
Through all the stages of his former life.
Think now: how hard his luck
Who used to be a fine tall fellow.

   (_Thomas Stearns Eliot: Poet_ [Cambridge: 
    Cambridge Univ. Press, 1979], 77)

___________________________________________________________
Greg Foster                  | "Fine art is the refinement,
<[log in to unmask]>  | not the antithesis, of
TSE <[log in to unmask]> | popular art." -- T. S. Eliot

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Date:         Mon, 20 Nov 1995 16:17:09 -0500 (EST)
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         Catherine Elizabeth Paul <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Eliot's French Poems
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Having bludgeoned my way through my own translations, I would *love* to 
exchange/compare notes on them. My trans. of "Dans le restaurant" 
differed in a couple of places from the one Greg posted, and while I feel 
confident that some of the spots were my errors, I would also question 
Moody's choices in places, too. Eliot seems to move oddly between French 
and English idiom in those poems, which makes translating them even weirder.

Cheers,
Catherine Paul
University of Michigan
[log in to unmask]

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Date:         Mon, 20 Nov 1995 17:09:19 -0500 (EST)
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         James F Loucks <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      login
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Content-Length: 202       

I must be doing something wrong...when one of my messages gets posted, the 
sender comes on as Tse@lists instead of myself.  How do I log on correctly?

James Loucks.  [log in to unmask]

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Date:         Mon, 20 Nov 1995 16:27:24 -0600
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         [log in to unmask] (Brice Matson)
Subject:      Re: login
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>I must be doing something wrong...when one of my messages gets posted, the 
>sender comes on as Tse@lists instead of myself.  How do I log on correctly?
>
>James Loucks.  [log in to unmask]
>
>
I am not sure what your question means but I wanted to reassure by pointing
out that however you are doing it, your posts are getting onto the list.  In the
header, it will say that the Sender: is [log in to unmask]  It should also say that
it is
From: [log in to unmask]  Since you sign your messages with your e-mail
address, it isn't that important what the header says (we know it is from you).

Hope this helps!
Brice Matson 

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Date:         Mon, 20 Nov 1995 17:40:31 -0500 (EST)
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         Leon Surette <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Eliot's emotions and feelings
In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

	I, too, have been intrigued and a little mystified by Eliot's 
distinction between feeling and emotion for many yeaars. It derives from 
his work on F.H. Bradley, who draws that distinction, and Eliot refers to 
it a couple of times in his dissertation. But even with that context, the 
distinction remains very slippery.
	My own understanding is close to Rusell Perkins in that an 
emotion is part of our conscious life -- such as hatred, love, desire, 
etc. Feelings, by contrast, are pre-conscious or undifferentiated, or 
both. Anger, then would be a feeling, not an emotion insofar as anger can 
be an undifferentiated state without any conscious motivation. I'm not 
entirely happy with this analysis, but it does seem to fit the case. 
	On the other hand, we also have the possibility that feelings are 
sensations, that is physiological inputs prior -- both logically and 
temporally -- to the states of the personality we call emotions. On this 
analysis we don't need the conscious/pre-conscious distinction, but have 
instead a somatic/psychic distinction -- which, of course, would on 
occassion be equivalent to conscious/pre-conscious.
	Neither of these interpretations has ever satisfied me entirely, 
and it just might be that Eliot vacillated between the two.
	I hope this is of some help. 

Leon Surette			Email: [log in to unmask]
Department of English           Fax: 519-661-3776
The University of Western Ontario
London, Ontario
N6A 3K7

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Date:         Mon, 20 Nov 95 17:16:18 CST
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         David Spurr <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Eliot's emotions and feelings
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Some further commentary on the interesting thread introduced by
Russell Perkin. In teaching Eliot I have treated his distinction
between emotion and feeling in the context of a series of related
oppositions between conscious and unconscious, personality and
impersonality, individual talent and tradition, etc. In each
case the latter term is privileged as more universal and intuitive,
while the former is treated as more localized and expressive.
Eliot appears to think of feeling as a source of artistic inspiration,
and of emotion, or "new art emotion," as the effect on the reader or
spectator.

David Spurr
University of Illinois, Chicago

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Date:         Mon, 20 Nov 95 16:38:13 MST
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         "Peter Quigley" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: ELIOT AND FIRE
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

I am not an Eliot scholar but I am wanting  to include Wasteland in a discussion 
of two other regeneration myth poems: Robinson Jeffers Double Axe and Snyder's 
Myths and Texts. I am wanting to make what is I am sure a far too neat 
distinction between the three.It goes like this. I want to suggest that, 
especially from an ecological point of view, that Eliots poem is the least 
admirable. I will want to say that, brilliant modernist poetics aside, Eliots 
conservative and religious sense sees the situation as hopeless. Thepoem is 
essentially a death knell and demonstrates little environmental sense remaining, 
as it does, an anthropocentric hymn. I want to suggest that where fire remains a 
part of the process of renewal (not necessarily human renewal) in Snyder and 
Jeffers that with Eliot it has a more all consuming spiritual quality. Eliot 
points up and out I want to suggest, not being concerned with any biological 
future if it doesnt contain a spiritually fulfilled human. 
Summarizing questiuon: what role independent of the human spirit does ecological 
nature have in the imaginative space of the Wasteland?

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Date:         Mon, 20 Nov 1995 17:31:24 -0600
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         [log in to unmask] (Willard Goodwin)
Subject:      lizards and snakes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

This is, in part, a test to see how my connection to tse works. (I'll be
looking into the French poems at home tonight). All the best, Will Goodwin.

A fillip from a recent _TLS_ (27 Oct. 1995, p. 36) review of _Richard
Aldington and H.D.: the Later Years in Letters_, ed. by Caroline Zilboorg
(Manchester University Press): "He [Aldington] could not appreciate T.S.
Eliot's poems (this was mutual), though they had been friends. 'All *real*
poets love lizards and snakes--sacred to Phoebus,' he told H.D. in 1960,
'Tom Eliot screams when he sees one!!'" (And the title of the review is, of
course, "Real poets love lizards.")

Now I'm not saying it's true ("Real poets love lizards."), but it would be
an interesting distinction to work with. Think of, say, Marianne Moore,
D.H. Lawrence, and, you name it.

Willard Goodwin, Bibliographer
Harry Ransom Humanities Research Center
University of Texas at Austin
P.O. Box 7219
Austin, TX 78713-7219
(512) 471-9113; FAX (512) 471-9646
e-mail: [log in to unmask]

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Date:         Tue, 21 Nov 1995 09:31:35 -0500
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         [log in to unmask]
Subject:      Re: ELIOT AND FIRE
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

In response to Peter Quigley from St. Mary's about using _The Wasteland_ in
conjunction with Robinson Jeffers' _Double Axe_ and Snyder's 
_Myths and Texts._

In a message dated 95-11-20 18:47:45 EST, you write:

>I will want to say that, brilliant modernist poetics aside, Eliots 
>conservative and religious sense sees the situation as hopeless.  Thepoem is
 >essentially a death knell and demonstrates little environmental sense
remaining,  as it >does, an anthropocentric hymn.

I don't know that Eliot's poem will cooperate very well with what you're
proposing to want to demonstrate. 

On the one hand, the poem does not end on a hopeless note. 

On the other hand, there is such a strong identity of the state of man and
the state of nature that I don't think anyone could successfully demonstrate
that there is a significant distinction made between them in the poem.

I'm curious about the way you use "environmental sense." I'd appreciate it if
you'd elaborate a bit on it and how you are using it in a kind of opposition
to "anthropocentric." 

      Gabrielle Loperfido
      UNC Chapel Hill

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Date:         Tue, 21 Nov 1995 11:24:19 -0600
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         [log in to unmask] (Willard Goodwin)
Subject:      The Waste Land
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

(Not with a flame, but a nudge): Please people, in of all places, the TSE
list, can't we get the title right: _The Waste Land_. It makes a
difference.

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Date:         Tue, 21 Nov 1995 12:50:39 -0600 (CST)
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         "HUGS, LOVE, AND EXPLODING COCONUTS, ERICKA NORMAN." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      sorry to interupt...
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

I'm sorry if I'm jumping in the middle of someone's converstaion...
I don't mean to disrupt your thoughts... but I had a few questions, that
I was wondering if any of you could help me with...for english class I
am suposed to do a report on T.S. Eliot...I came up with the idea of
writting my paper on his use of symbolism in his peotry, do you think that
that is a good topic or should I try some other aspects of his writting.
the actual report is about the cretics done about an aspect of his 
writting... will I be able to find the right kind of informantion with that
topic or should I try something else?  any ideas? or sugestions?  if you
think that would be a good topic (or which ever one you sugest) where
would be a good source for informantion as well...  I'm sorry to 
interupt your thoughts again... 

the desperate,
Ericka Norman (guess)

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Date:         Tue, 21 Nov 1995 13:12:02 -0600
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         [log in to unmask] (Timothy Materer)
Subject:      Introduction; the list; salamanders and snakes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Although Greg Foster has honored me as co-owner of the TSE list, the
creation of the list was Greg's idea.  I also have the privilege of  being
the director of Greg's dissertation, but all members of his Ph.D. committee
will tell you that Greg delivers finished work and needs no directing.  By
the way, despite his obsession with Eliot's obsession he is not at all the
kind of chap who would, even once in a lifetime, do a girl in.

Thanks to those who have started us off.  I hope we can all indulge in
biographical speculation without (among ourselves) worrying how valid it
might be when writing criticism.  Auden thought such criticism utterly
invalid, but loved more than anyone gossiping about the great.  I get lots
of bio/ questions about TSE lately because of that damn (excuse please if
the word violates list netiquette) movie.  Even so, I refuse to see _Tom
Viv_!

Brice wants to know if we should drop our signature files.  I don't see why
since they take up little space.  What I occasionally find a problem,
however, on some lists is when long posts are repeated in someone else's
post. (Also I should tell you that in his computer composition classes Greg
is a stickler for full and accurate e-mail subject lines!)  Brice asks if
we should talk about Ezra Pound also. My vote is that  Pound's fans can get
their own list! (In fact, they probably do have one.  Tim Redman or Hugh
Witemeyer should know and maybe will write in to tell us.)  Finally, I hope
everyone can feel relaxed about spelling and sentence structure--even tho
there must be a fair number of English profs on the list. Its nice to feel
you dont have to stick in every apostrophe or spell everything write.

My interest in Eliot may be seen in a chapter of my forthcoming _Modernist
Alchemy: Modern Poetry and the Occult_. I don't of course claim that Eliot
was an occultist. (Nor does Leon Surette.) In the Eliot chapter and
throughout the book, I use Eliot's critique of the poetic and spiritual
dangers of occultism (particularly seen in his criticism of Yeats) to
anchor my own criticism of the problems inherent in literary occultism.

How I wish I knew about what William Goodwin quotes from Richard Aldington
while I was still revising my book!
'All *real*
poets love lizards and snakes--sacred to Phoebus,' he told H.D. in 1960,
'Tom Eliot screams when he sees one!!'" (And the title of the review is, of
course, "Real poets love lizards.")

There will be a big golden lizard--a salamander actually (which can live in
fire)--on the cover of my book. (If you are at the Chicago MLA, I hope it
will be there at the Cornell booth.) It's surely true that poets love
lizards--Yeats's polar dragon, Pound's blue viper.  In distinguishing Eliot
from occultist poets, I quote the following from "The Rock" (X):

The great snake lies ever half awake, at the bottom of the pit of the world
.. . . . Come ye out from among those who prize the serpent's golden eyes."

Leon, anything to add here?

Welcome! and thank you,  Greg Foster!

Timothy Materer
Director of Lower Division Studies
882-2356  Fall office hours:
MWF 10:40-11:40 and by appt.

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Date:         Tue, 21 Nov 1995 14:27:40 -0800
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         Alexander Justice <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: information
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

>Is there some place on the Web where you can get Eliot's texts?
>
>Thanks,
>Bill

Which leads one to wonder, are they yet in the public domain?

Alexander Justice * Redlands, California, USA
[log in to unmask] * http://www.empirenet.com/~jahvah/

Literature Lovers Web Site: http://www.empirenet.com/~rdaeley/authors.html

"All intellectual improvement arises from leisure." Samuel Johnson

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Date:         Tue, 21 Nov 1995 17:29:24 -0500 (EST)
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         Leon Surette <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Introduction; the list; salamanders and snakes
In-Reply-To: <v01530502acd67b2751e7@[128.206.51.136]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

	I'm not sure why Tim asked me if I have anything to add to his 
posting on salamanders, but a ham can never resist an invitation to get 
on stage. I'm blessed if I know what pertinence it has, but Keat's Lamia 
poem is about the role of the sorcerer, Apollonius of Tyana, in 
assisting the Lamia (serpent) to seduce Isabella -- no doubt with nods to
 _Genesis_ and _Paradise Lost_. Poundians will know that Apollonius is a 
hero of the later cantos, though the serpentine connection is not mentioned. 
Pound is more turned on by Dionysian beasts -- leopards especially.
	There is, a Pound list, to which I subscribe, but I haven't 
memorized the address. It's Paideuma something or other, I think. I'm 
sorry to say that I will not be at the Chicago MLA.

Leon Surette			Email: [log in to unmask]
Department of English           Fax: 519-661-3776
The University of Western Ontario
London, Ontario
N6A 3K7

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Date:         Tue, 21 Nov 1995 17:44:21 -0700
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         "booher" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: James Loucks' help wanted
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hi!

Don't know if this will be of any help or not, but have you tried
Lyndall Gordon's two bios of Eliot?  I know her one on his later years
really taught me loads about the man.

Just a thought. . .

Mischelle Booher

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Date:         Tue, 21 Nov 1995 17:51:10 -0700
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         "booher" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Brice Maston
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hello.

I was just at a conference with a Michelle Mitchell-Faust who, I think,
teaches at UMissouri-Columbia.  Do you know her?  

Also, I just wanted to say that the obvious answer to j. alfred's "what
is it?" is that of Douglas Adams in the _Hitchiker's Guide to the
Galaxy_--42.
Spam is totally irrelevant and nasty.

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Date:         Tue, 21 Nov 1995 18:07:44 -0700
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         "booher" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re:  yet another introduction. . .
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hello!

I'm a first-year Ph.D. candidate at Oklahoma State University, and my
obsession with tse goes back to before I could spell Prufrock.  My MA
thesis is on his _East Coker_ quartet (of _Four Quartets_), specifically
his theory of the unspeakable traced from Prufrock on.  I know I'm meant
to be a lit snob because my thesis centered around one line of his work,
"The poetry does not matter."  I love that man.

I'm lately interested in the sentimental novel's residual elements in
modern lit.  Like for a class now, I'm dissecting Lawrence's _The Plumed
Serpent_ (I know--it's a horrible book!) according to sentimental
conventions.  It works amazingly well.  

Does anyone think that perhaps the same could be applied to tse's work? 
So many accusations of misogyny--maybe they are off-track.  Seems like
I'm forever defending my man. . . .

Anyway, love to hear anyone's ideas.
Thanks!

Mischelle Booher  ([log in to unmask])  

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Date:         Tue, 21 Nov 1995 15:10:24 -0800 (PST)
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         "J.Cooper" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      My yours truly
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

So I take it today is 'plug my book' day on the list =:+).  So here goes: 
after you've finished admiring Materer's dust jacket at the Cornell booth 
in Chicago sidle over to the Cambridge UP booth and take a look at my 
dust jacket.  It's in four quarters (guess what the book is about?) and 
in nice shades of red and purple and pink.  The book is just 
out and should be on display at the MLA.

Personal stuff:  I teach modern British lit (mainly poetry 1880-1980 or
thereabouts) at U of British Columbia in Vancouver.  _T.S. Eliot and the
Ideology of 'Four Quartets'_ (CUP 1995) is the book with the pretty
duskjacket.  It's my second on Eliot, the first was on _The Waste Land_ 
pubbed in 1987.  

Lately I've been primarily interested in the later Eliot, from the mid30s 
to the 1950s, the Eliot who had become a public celebrity and sage by the 
1940s.  

Thanks to Greg Foster and Tim Materer for getting the list started.  

John Xiros Cooper

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Date:         Tue, 21 Nov 1995 17:23:16 -0600
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         [log in to unmask] (Willard Goodwin)
Subject:      Pound list
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Dear Possum:

The Ezra Pound list is at: [log in to unmask]
Send the message "subscribe EPOUND-L"

Yrs, Rabbit.

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Date:         Tue, 21 Nov 1995 18:01:10 -0600 (CST)
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         Joseph G Middleton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Eliot's Fr.poems
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

     In response to Catherine E. Paul's question
about Eliot's french poems, you might want to read
Donald Hall's interview (for the Paris Review).
This isn't a source of translations or a *scholarly
treatment* but I do recall that Eliot mentions these
poems specifically, and talks about his motivations
for writing them.  I think he was out to prove something
to himself about his poetic abilities if I remember
the interview correctly.
   I'm not certain which year or issue of the Paris
Review it iss in, but I believe
somewhere around summer of '69 would be about right.
Hope this is at least interesting if not helpful.

Joe Middleton
[log in to unmask]

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Date:         Tue, 21 Nov 1995 19:10:49 -0500
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         [log in to unmask]
Subject:      Re: Introduction; the list; salamanders and snakes
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Timothy Materer speculates that readers of Ezra Pound probably have their own
mailing list.  He's correct.

As the most recent issue of *Sagetrieb* announced, Burton Hatlen has
organized a Listserv for the Ezra Pound Society.  To subscribe, send the
message "Subscribe EPound-L <your first name> <your last name>" to
[log in to unmask]  That's right - two "Maine"s.

I'm sure I'll be seeing many of you on both lists.

Kenneth Kreutzer     Kent, Ohio
([log in to unmask])

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Date:         Tue, 21 Nov 1995 19:57:50 -0500 (EST)
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         James F Loucks <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      strange gods
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C Ricks traced the title of After Strange Gods to a story by Kipling
containing the phrase "go
whoring after strange gods" (in the 1880's). There was a novel by that title
(1913) by Josephine Weatherly; but more interesting is the fact that when TSE
was in New York City visiting his brother Henry and lecturing at the New School
and Columbia, there was a "hit" play with the title "Strange Gods" at the Ritz
Theatre (in April 1933). My guess is that the play title triggered the Kipling
association; TSE gave the Page-Barbour Lectures at Virginia in May 1933, and
later titled them ASG (1934). (The play is about a Florida cracker, so the only
link is the "southern" element; TSE stressed the "southern" theme in his
initial lecture; and of course at that time he was sympathetic with the 
Agrarian/Fugitive movement involving Tate et al.).)

Another thing that may be pure coincidence: TSE's
birthday, 26 September, happens to be the day devoted to Lancelot
Andrewes in the Anglican/Episcopal Church calendar...does anyone know whether
it's Andrewes' birth date? or the date of his death? or?

James Loucks, Ohio State U ==   [log in to unmask]

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Date:         Tue, 21 Nov 1995 20:26:43 -0500
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         [log in to unmask] (Charles E McElwain)
Subject:      strange gods
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

   Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 19:57:50 -0500 (EST)
   Reply-To: [log in to unmask]
   Sender: [log in to unmask]
   From: James F Loucks <[log in to unmask]>

Kipling would appear to have been close enough to Eliot's mind for him
to have edited _A Choice of Kipling's Verse_, Faber, 1941, with a 30+
page introductory essay.

   C Ricks traced the title of After Strange Gods to a story by Kipling
   containing the phrase "go whoring after strange gods" (in the 1880's).
   There was a novel by that title (1913) by Josephine Weatherly; but
   more interesting is the fact that when TSE was in New York City
   visiting his brother Henry and lecturing at the New School and
   Columbia, there was a "hit" play with the title "Strange Gods" at the
   Ritz Theatre (in April 1933). My guess is that the play title
   triggered the Kipling association; TSE gave the Page-Barbour Lectures
   at Virginia in May 1933, and later titled them ASG (1934). (The play
   is about a Florida cracker, so the only link is the "southern"
   element; TSE stressed the "southern" theme in his initial lecture; and
   of course at that time he was sympathetic with the Agrarian/Fugitive
   movement involving Tate et al.).)

      James Loucks, Ohio State U ==   [log in to unmask]

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Date:         Tue, 21 Nov 95 17:48:43 -0800
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         Bruce Ong <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Hi ya
MIME-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2)
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Hi Gang -  I guess I'll add to the intro thread. My interest in Eliot  
started when I first read the Prufrock poem about 10 years ago, and his  
poetry has been a companion since. Eliot has been a good tool for me in my  
efforts to learn English as my second language as well as to understand the  
modern Western civilization. Reading Eliot also led me to a fascination with  
mythology and I have grown more and more aware of the similar patterns  
between the myths of western world and the myths and legends of China, where  
I was born and raised (and was once a Red Guard).

When I am not playing a latent academic I make cameo appearances as a  
software engineer at NeXT Computer Inc. writing object oriented software  
frameworks. I wrote the original proposal for, and I am one of the primary  
engineers working on NeXT's WebObjects framework at the moment  
(http://www.next.com/WebObjects/Welcome.html) -- a product which I believe  
will forever change the way people use the web. I like to flip through the  
pages of "Selected Poems of T. S. Eliot" and Goethe's "Faust" while waiting  
for my code to compile at work.

I have a pseudo Eliot page at http://www.next.com/~bong/eliot/index if you  
wish to stop by. It's got some funny parodies of Prufrock, a lot of badly  
spelled words, and some quotes from Raymond Chandler about an anemic blonde  
and "The Waste Land."

Thanks to Greg and Tim for starting the mailing list.

Care,
/bong

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Date:         Tue, 21 Nov 1995 23:23:02 -0600
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         "Greg Foster" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Donald Hall's TSE Interview (excerpt on French poems)
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The interview with Donald Hall which Joe Middleton mentioned
originally appeared in _Paris Review_ 21 (Spring/Summer 1959),
47-70, under the title "The Art of Poetry, I: T. S. Eliot."  Hall 
reprinted it in his recent book _Their Ancient Glittering Eyes_.  
Here are the two questions and responses having to do with the French 
poems, as best I could type them in with a large cat in my lap:

  INTERVIEWER [Donald Hall]: I think it was after "Prufrock" and
before "Gerontion" that you wrote the poems in French which appear in
your _Collected Poems_. I wonder how you happened to write them. Have
you written any since?

  ELIOT: No, and I never shall.  That was a very curious thing which
I can't altogether explain.  At that period I though I'd dried up
completely.  I hadn't written anything for some time and was rather
desperate.  I started writing a few things in French and found I
*could,* at that period.  I think it was that when I was writing in
French I didn't take the poems so seriously, and that, not taking
them seriously, I wasn't so worried about not being able to write.  I
did these things as a sort of tour de force to see what I could do. 
That went on for some months.  The best of them have been printed.  I
must say that Ezra Pound went through them, and Edmond Dulac, a
Frenchman we knew in London, helped with them a bit. We left out
some, and I suppose they disappeared completely.  Then I suddenly
began writing in English again and lost all desire to go on with
French.  I think it was just something that helped me get started
again.

  INTERVIEWER: Did you think at all about becoming a French symbolist
poet like the two Americans of the last century?

  ELIOT: Stuart Merrill and Viele-Griffin.  I only did that during
the romantic year I spent in Paris after Harvard.  I had at that time
the idea of giving up English and trying to settle down and scrape
along in Paris and gradually write French.  But it would have been a
foolish idea even if I'd been much more bilingual than I ever was,
because, for one thing, I don't think that one can be a bilingual
poet.  I don't know of any case in which a man wrote great or even
fine poems equally well in two languages.  I think one language must
be the one you express yourself in in poetry, and you've got to give
up the other for that purpose.  and I think that the English
language really has more resources in some respects than the French. 
I think, in other words, I've probably done better in English than I
ever would have in French even if I'd become as proficient in French
as the poets you mentioned.

     --"Interview: T. S. Eliot," in _Their Ancient Glittering Eyes: 
Remembering Poets and More Poets_, by Donald Hall, 266.  New York: 
Ticknor & Fields, 1992.

Regards,

Greg
___________________________________________________________
Greg Foster                  | "Fine art is the refinement,
<[log in to unmask]>  | not the antithesis, of
TSE <[log in to unmask]> | popular art." -- T. S. Eliot

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Date:         Tue, 21 Nov 1995 23:52:48 -0600
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         "Greg Foster" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Symbolism in TSE as report topic (was: sorry to interupt...)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Ericka--

"Symbolism in T. S. Eliot" sounds great as a place to start, but
you'll need to narrow the topic considerably if you aren't planning
to research "the gifts reserved for age," too, before sitting down
to write.

One good possibility you'll be able to find plenty of criticism
about would be the symbol of the rose garden (including perhaps also
the hyacinth garden in _The Waste Land_).

Good luck--

Greg
___________________________________________________________
Greg Foster                  | "Fine art is the refinement,
<[log in to unmask]>  | not the antithesis, of
TSE <[log in to unmask]> | popular art." -- T. S. Eliot

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Date:         Wed, 22 Nov 1995 0:28:13 -0600 (CST)
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         "HUGS, LOVE, AND EXPLODING COCONUTS, ERICKA NORMAN." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Symbolism in TSE as report topic (was: sorry to interupt...)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

thank you so much Greg... :-)  <hugs across the internet>  thank you, now,
I have a cupple of good starting points... :-)

ok...one, I'd like to apoligize for barging on here anf not even introducing
myself... (sorry about that)..  My name is Ericka Norman and I'm a
student at Lamar University (in Texas).  I'm actually both a college
freshman and a high school junior (one of those wonderful programs where
I get high school credit for going to college and gettting college credit,
it's actually a really wonderful step ahead for me).  And I'm sorry I'm
not one of those people that have loved T.S.Eliot of 10 or more years yet,
becuase I feel that I won't be able to input a lot in the discussions.
As of this moment I've actually read very little of him (other than what
I'm reading for the report I'm currently in the middle of).  And I'm
probably one of the youngest people on here (guess that sums it up...).

thanks for your time,
Ericka... :-)

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Date:         Wed, 22 Nov 1995 03:49:59 -0600
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         [log in to unmask] (Brice Matson)
Subject:      Re: Symbolism in TSE as report topic (was: sorry to interupt...)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>As of this moment I've actually read very little of him (other than what
>I'm reading for the report I'm currently in the middle of).  And I'm
>probably one of the youngest people on here (guess that sums it up...).
>
>thanks for your time,
>Ericka... :-)
>

Ericka,
        Personally, I'm happy to have tse ers of all ages and degrees of
interest
send me mail.  If I were doing the paper you are, I would start by looking at
the introduction to whatever eliot work you choose.  Editors and introducers
often give interesting bibliographic 'tips' about where to find the types of 
scholarship that pertain to your topic, if nothing else (some give more than
others).  There are 'some' resources for Eliot on the Internet but the 'real'
library still has it beat (concerning Eliot).

---------------------------------------------------------------------
This is not a sig.file.  It's, uh, part of my rhetoric!
Yeah, yeah, that's it!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Brice Matson ([log in to unmask])
Wild World Web -- http://www.missouri.edu/~c594600

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Date:         Wed, 22 Nov 1995 11:00:09 -0500 (EST)
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         James F Loucks <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      strange gods again
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Yes, I was of course aware of the Kipling volume, but it was a volume of verse;
TSE probably re-read RK's stories in connection with his extension lectures 
long before that. Seeing the words "Strange Gods" in 1933 may have had 
something to do with his re-use of them a few months later.

[log in to unmask]

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Date:         Wed, 22 Nov 1995 13:31:25 -0600
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         [log in to unmask] (Timothy Materer)
Subject:      A Salamander not a Lizard; Feelings, Ordinary Feelings
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1.  Prof. Cooper: naturally I wouldn't compromise the intellectual
integrity of this list with a vulgar book plug!   Nor would you of
course--we're just being informative. (By the way, that's a salamander not
a lizard on the cover & remember to bring your checkbook and take advantage
of the MLA discount!)

2. I'm grateful for the comments on feelings and emotions in Eliot. It
always seems to interest students to talk about what Eliot means by these
terms. Then the class can go on to how all this relates to E's conception
of the image. You can skip the notes below (from Frank Kermode's collection
of his essays), which are only meant to show that the sequence seems to be:

sensation-->feeling-->emotion ("Immediate experience" is of course prior to
everything but we can't "experience" it.)

Emotion and Feeling:
Relation of word and emotion  54
Coleridge's philosophy as a matter of his emotions  56
emotions becoming cruder (dissoc. of sensibility)  65
ideas and emotions in Shelley  83
fringe of feeling  145
ideas and feelings in Henry James  152
relation of emotion to object to Marvell  167
Tennyson's feelings more honest than his mind 245

Sensation and feeling:
immediate experience  35
relation of sensory experience to emotion  48
word and sensation 54, 156
sensuous appeal of thought  63
dissoc. of sensibility  64
writing the nervous system  66
images saturated with feeling  90
depths of feeling into which we cannot peer  91
unnamed feelings  96
relations of sensation and word  157
Milton's lack of fusion of auditory with other senses 262
experiencing hell through sensory images
music, idea, image  114

I may be off on a few page #s--dont have my book here

Timothy Materer
Director of Lower Division Studies
882-2356  Fall office hours:
MWF 10:40-11:40 and by appt.

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Date:         Sat, 25 Nov 1995 09:42:10 -0700 (MST)
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         Mar Ninneman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Request for Information
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I am writing a paper in a master's class at the University of New Mexico 
in which I am using *T. S. Eliot's Silent Voices* by John T. Mayer, 
published by Oxford University Press in 1989.  I would like to 
incorporate a brief biographical profile of the author, but am unable to 
find anything about him using standard library sources.  Does anyone know 
anything about this author?

Thanks

Martha Ninneman

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Date:         Tue, 28 Nov 1995 08:22:24 -0600
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         "Greg Foster" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Request for Information (John T. Mayer bio)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Martha Ninneman wrote: 
> I am writing a paper in a master's class at the University of New
> Mexico in which I am using *T. S. Eliot's Silent Voices* by John T.
> Mayer, published by Oxford University Press in 1989.  I would like
> to incorporate a brief biographical profile of the author, but am
> unable to find anything about him using standard library sources. 
> Does anyone know anything about this author?
> 
Short answer: no.  The dust jacket on my copy of his book says he is 
Associate Professor of English at Holy Cross College.  The LOC entry 
says he was born in 1933.  The rest is silence.

I tried to find a web site or gopher server at Holy Cross that could
tell us more, but there was nothing (or nothing for English).

Good luck!

Greg

___________________________________________________________
Greg Foster                  | "Fine art is the refinement,
<[log in to unmask]>  | not the antithesis, of
TSE <[log in to unmask]> | popular art." -- T. S. Eliot

========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 28 Nov 1995 13:04:23 -0500 (EST)
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         James F Loucks <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      JT Mayer
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Content-Length: 403       

You might be able to find an entry on John T. Mayer in the Directory of 
American Scholars...but if my search is correct, the DAS stops at 1982. If this
is the case, you'd probably have to write to Mayer and get him to update his 
bio. The MLA Directory might have his current address if different from the one
in the dust jacket of his book (Holy Cross). Good luck.  
[log in to unmask]

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Date:         Tue, 28 Nov 1995 19:29:44 -0600
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         "Greg Foster" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Query: "The Mongol in our midst"
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

In his January 1927 review "Charleston, Hey! Hey!" Eliot says of
John Rodker that he is "up to the minute, if anyone is; we feel sure
that he knows all about hormones, W. H. R. Rivers, and the Mongol in
our midst."  Later that year, in a September letter to Bonamy
Dobree, he jokes that he is preparing a little book entitled _The
Bolovian in Our Midst_, "proving that there was Bolovian blood in
some of the leading figures of the day."  (The latter description is
Robert Crawford's; I have not seen the letter in question).

I know I have seen this phrase ("the Mongol in our midst") before,
and I would bet it has to do with the racist rhetoric of that branch
of modern anthropology that associated more "primitive" cultures with
evolutionary inferiority and prattled about degeneration, but I
can't find the references anywhere. Can anyone refresh my memory?  
Who popularized the phrase "the Mongol in our midst"?

Thanks in advance,

Greg

___________________________________________________________
Greg Foster                  | "Fine art is the refinement,
<[log in to unmask]>  | not the antithesis, of
TSE <[log in to unmask]> | popular art." -- T. S. Eliot

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Date:         Tue, 28 Nov 1995 18:59:23 -0800
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         Alexander Justice <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Query: "The Mongol in our midst"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Greg et al, hello! 
I am just taking a stab at this, but there are Mongol ancestors in 
European royalty (i.e. the Windsors). This comes via Russia; I have seen 
the charts, but don't recall precisely how it gets there. Of course, this 
means descent from various Khans, not lowly Mongols.

>I know I have seen this phrase ("the Mongol in our midst") before,
>and I would bet it has to do with the racist rhetoric of that branch
>of modern anthropology that associated more "primitive" cultures with
>evolutionary inferiority and prattled about degeneration, but I
>can't find the references anywhere. Can anyone refresh my memory?  
>Who popularized the phrase "the Mongol in our midst"?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Greg

Alexander Justice * Redlands, California, USA
[log in to unmask] * http://www.empirenet.com/~jahvah/

"It's just tormenting the people with trivia!!!" 
--Napoleon I on the metric system

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Date:         Wed, 29 Nov 95 08:42:48 MST
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         "Peter Quigley" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re[2]: Query: "The Mongol in our midst"
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

I need to repeat a question I made a while ago if I may.

I am interested in any work that has been done on the Waste Land, and 
environmentalism, and/or anthropocentrism. The regeneration myth seems to be 
totally human driven in Eliot, that is the land depends on man not the other way 
around.

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Date:         Wed, 29 Nov 95 08:49:57 MST
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         "Peter Quigley" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re[2]: ELIOT AND FIRE
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_______________________________________________________________________________

Subject: Re: ELIOT AND FIRE

From:    [log in to unmask] at Internet-Mail

Date:    11/21/95  7:40 AM

In response to Peter Quigley from St. Mary's about using _The Wasteland_ in
conjunction with Robinson Jeffers' _Double Axe_ and Snyder's 
_Myths and Texts._

In a message dated 95-11-20 18:47:45 EST, you write:

On the one hand, the poem does not end on a hopeless note. 

I WAS ALLOWING MY BIASES TO FORGE BY RHETORIC. DEATH KNELL FOR NATURE IN THE 
SENSE OF THERE BEING SUCH A COMPLETE HUMANISTIC UNDERSTANDING OF THE PURPOSES OF 
NATURE 

On the other hand, there is such a strong identity of the state of man and
the state of nature that I don't think anyone could successfully demonstrate
that there is a significant distinction made between them in the poem.

I THINK THIS IS MY POINT THAT NATURE IS SUBSUMED BY ELIOT DEMONSTRATING HIS 
ROMANTIC HERITAGE (EMERSON'S "NATURE IS MADE TO SERVE" OUR PLASTIC AND RESHAPING 
ENERGIES)

I'm curious about the way you use "environmental sense." I'd appreciate it if
you'd elaborate a bit on it and how you are using it in a kind of opposition
to "anthropocentric." 

I AM SUGGESTING THAT THERE IS A TRADITION ESTABLISHED IN SNYDER, JEFFERS, ET. 
AL. WHERE INDDED HUMANKIND IS SEEN AS PART OF BUT CERTAINLY NOT THE MEASURE OF 
NATURE. MY SENSE IS THAT ELIOT'S MYTHOLOGY PUTS HUMAN WELL BEING IN THE CENTER 
WHERE OTHER VERSIONS OF THE REGENERATION MYTH SEE NATURE IN THE CENTER, I.E. ARE 
DRIVEN BY AN EARTH CENTERED ETHIC INSTEAD OF A HUMANIST ONE.  THE COMPARISON 
WITH AMERICAN INDIANS TO WHITE SETTLERS COMES TO MIND WITH THE HUMAN IN THE 
MIDDLE AND ALL OF NATURE BIRDS TREES ETC REVOLVE AROUND HIM, WHERE IN FACT EARTH 
IS IN THE MIDDLE FOR NATIVE AMERICANS WITH THE ANIMLAS INCLUDING MAN REVOLVES 
AROUND IT... 

      Gabrielle Loperfido
      UNC Chapel Hill

========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 29 Nov 95 08:56:19 MST
Reply-To:     "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
From:         "Peter Quigley" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      ELIOT AND NATURE
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

SORRY TO RESEND BUT I THOUGHT A CORRECT SUBJECT HEADING WAS NEEDED

_______________________________________________________________________________

Subject: Re[2]: Query: "The Mongol in our midst"

From:    [log in to unmask] at Internet-Mail

Date:    11/29/95  8:42 AM

I need to repeat a question I made a while ago if I may.

I am interested in any work that has been done on the Waste Land, and 
environmentalism, and/or anthropocentrism. The regeneration myth seems to be 
totally human driven in Eliot, that is the land depends on man not the other way

around.