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I think the point of what has been said here is that Eliot's defensive
language--in statements OR poems does not let him off the hook--for any of
his sins. The most telling thing is that he never shows regret or sorrow
for others he has hurt. Forgiveness depends on contrition.

None of which deminishes the poetry, which is great for what it creates and
reveals, not for being nice.
Nancy

Nancy

On Tue, Jan 7, 2020, 7:40 PM Chanan Mittal <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> A quote from The Cocktail Party, FWIW:
>
> *If we all were judged according to the consequences*
>
> *Of all our words and deeds, beyond the intention*
>
> *And beyond our limited understanding*
>
> *Of ourselves and others, we should all be condemned.”*
>
> CR
>
> On Tue, Jan 7, 2020 at 5:37 PM Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Convenient but not answer.
>> N
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 7, 2020, 5:21 PM Chanan Mittal <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> Let these words answer
>>> For what is done, not to be done again
>>> May the judgement not be too heavy upon us
>>>
>>> Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death
>>> Pray for us now and at the hour of our death.
>>>
>>> — TS Eliot, ‘Ash-Wednesday’
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 7, 2020 at 5:17 PM [log in to unmask] <
>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes, less biography, more poetry.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 7, 2020, at 5:17 PM, Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Eliot was a great poet, partly because he experienced depths of many
>>>> kinds. He was not a great man.
>>>>
>>>> I have not been at all surprised by the letters. We all already knew
>>>> how he abandoned her; this is the same attitude.
>>>>
>>>> Geoffrey Faber called him Jekyll and Hyde. There was always a reason.
>>>> But I have also always seen his work and life as divided. I hope this will
>>>> end any idealizing of the man.
>>>>
>>>> Nancy
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 7, 2020, 4:26 PM Chanan Mittal <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, one should be wary of throwing away the baby with the bath
>>>>> water.
>>>>>
>>>>> CR
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jan 7, 2020 at 4:07 PM Peter Dillane <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> That’s it I’m throwing out my copy of Byron
>>>>>>
>>>>>> cheers Pete
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 8 Jan 2020, at 7:04 am, Materer, Timothy J. <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pretending that the misogyny that led Eliot and Lowell and Hughes to
>>>>>> diminish and erase the women in their lives can be distilled away from
>>>>>> their poetry assures the endurance of misogyny in the verse of the future.
>>>>>> Bad men, abusive men, selfish men, it must be admitted, cannot be great
>>>>>> poets, deserving of reward and reverence, their sins washed away by rhyme
>>>>>> and unreason.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/07/opinions/t-s-eliot-letters-and-bad-male-poets-zakaria/index.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>