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Of course, “O how shall I address you, maiden?” is the only apt translation
in Aeneid’s context. What I have in mind is the added resonance in the
epigraph of La Figlia as an object of memory.  Just a clarification.

CR

On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 5:41 PM Chanan Mittal <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Well, if this is not wrong:
>
> *As for MEMOREM , it is the present subjunctive 1st.person singular of the
> verb ‘memorare'( to call, to name, to bring to remembrance, mention,
> recount, relate, speak of, say, tell ).*
>
> CR
>
> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 4:58 PM Chanan Mittal <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> It was Lyndall Gordon (Eliot’s Early Years, p. 24) who remarked about
>> Eliot’s notion that “to satisfy love was to destroy it forever.”
>>
>> CR
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 4:51 PM Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> As Tim Materer just pointed out, that is not a correct translation. The
>>> correct one is generally available, including in Ricks. It is not about
>>> remembering. Also, Venus is "disguised" as a huntress, hence "maiden."
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 3:34 PM Chanan Mittal <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> “How shall I remember you, maiden, as a human or divine presence? You
>>>> look so divine.” Well, an elaboration, if you like.
>>>>
>>>> CR
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 12:43 PM Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> She was quite lovely, and apparently he did care a lot for her, given
>>>>> that he corresponded with her later for 30 years. I don't see what that has
>>>>> to do with what the choice of Aeneas about Venus or about whether the poem
>>>>> was suggested by leaving her.
>>>>>
>>>>> But my prior point was about Venus, not whether Eliot had Hale in
>>>>> mind.
>>>>> N
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 12:12 PM Chanan Mittal <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> An image of Emily Hale that stands out vis-a-vis LA FIGLIA
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.scrippscollege.edu/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/9/files/2013/02/Emily-Hale.jpg
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CR
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 11:51 AM Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Two things matter here. First, Eliot repeatedly denied that the poem
>>>>>>> was about any woman at all but about a statue that, in fact, he never saw.
>>>>>>> Not that that means he really had no emotional experience behind it,
>>>>>>> whatever he denied.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But the "maiden" was Venus, goddess of love (also his mother), and
>>>>>>> she is about to send him to the palace of Dido, where he will be protected
>>>>>>> and where he will fall in love with Dido (or at least she will be in love
>>>>>>> and he will be her lover/partner in building Carthage until Zeus tells him
>>>>>>> to leave). She appears specifically for the purpose of sending him there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That scene is not about transcending the merely human but about
>>>>>>> going off to find what turns out to be a very physical and passionate and
>>>>>>> human love (they make love in a cave in a rainstorm and she takes that as
>>>>>>> marriage). Venus was divine and celestial but hardly into Platonic love.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If one uses that image and story, it does matter what is happening
>>>>>>> in the story.
>>>>>>> Nancy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 11:37 AM Chanan Mittal <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A further observation, s’il vous plait.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "By what  name should I address you, maiden; for your face is not
>>>>>>>> mortal, nor has your voice a human ring to it. Surely you are a goddess?".
>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The poet of LA FIGLIA utilizes a remark by Aeneas that underscores
>>>>>>>> the divine aspect of the maiden he comes across in his own romantic context
>>>>>>>> of Emily Hale to stress the need for transcending the merely human and
>>>>>>>> embracing the divine in that relationship. “Weave, weave the sunlight in
>>>>>>>> your hair.”
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> CR
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 9:27 AM Materer, Timothy J. <
>>>>>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The epigraph to LA FIGLIA, “O quam te memorem virgo ...” literally
>>>>>>>>> translated to “O how shall I remember you virgin” proved prophetic
>>>>>>>>> vis-a-vis Emily Hale, in that she became for him an object of memory.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In about an hour, I’ll be discussing this poem with my adult ed
>>>>>>>>> class, so a further observation.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It’s ok to pun on “memorem,” but the literal word is not “memory.”
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "O quam te memorem  virgo. . . ." It comes from the first book of
>>>>>>>>> the Aeneid, where Aeneas's  mother Venus, disguised as a virgin huntress,
>>>>>>>>> meets him in the woods at  Carthage and speaks to him. Aeneas answers:
>>>>>>>>> "O-quam te memorem, virgo? namque  haud tibi voltus / mortalis, nec vox
>>>>>>>>> hominem sonat; o dea certe!" "By what  name should I address you, maiden;
>>>>>>>>> for your face is not mortal, nor has your  voice a human ring to it. Surely
>>>>>>>>> you are a goddess?". .
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> * Some see the poem as a meditation on Aeneas’ parting from Dido,
>>>>>>>>> but Gordon and others as his parting from Emily Hale. Timothy Materer
>>>>>>>>> English Department, University of Missouri The James Merrill
>>>>>>>>> Listserv http://faculty.missouri.edu/materert/Merrill/list.html
>>>>>>>>> <http://faculty.missouri.edu/materert/Merrill/list.html> --THIS FICTIVE
>>>>>>>>> SPACE WE HERE INHABIT IS / THE STOP TO TIME *
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>