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Reminiscent of Dante’s take on Beatrice.

CR

On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 3:34 PM Chanan Mittal <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> “How shall I remember you, maiden, as a human or divine presence? You look
> so divine.” Well, an elaboration, if you like.
>
> CR
>
> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 12:43 PM Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> She was quite lovely, and apparently he did care a lot for her, given
>> that he corresponded with her later for 30 years. I don't see what that has
>> to do with what the choice of Aeneas about Venus or about whether the poem
>> was suggested by leaving her.
>>
>> But my prior point was about Venus, not whether Eliot had Hale in mind.
>> N
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 12:12 PM Chanan Mittal <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> An image of Emily Hale that stands out vis-a-vis LA FIGLIA
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.scrippscollege.edu/news/wp-content/uploads/sites/9/files/2013/02/Emily-Hale.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> CR
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 11:51 AM Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Two things matter here. First, Eliot repeatedly denied that the poem
>>>> was about any woman at all but about a statue that, in fact, he never saw.
>>>> Not that that means he really had no emotional experience behind it,
>>>> whatever he denied.
>>>>
>>>> But the "maiden" was Venus, goddess of love (also his mother), and she
>>>> is about to send him to the palace of Dido, where he will be protected and
>>>> where he will fall in love with Dido (or at least she will be in love and
>>>> he will be her lover/partner in building Carthage until Zeus tells him to
>>>> leave). She appears specifically for the purpose of sending him there.
>>>>
>>>> That scene is not about transcending the merely human but about going
>>>> off to find what turns out to be a very physical and passionate and human
>>>> love (they make love in a cave in a rainstorm and she takes that as
>>>> marriage). Venus was divine and celestial but hardly into Platonic love.
>>>>
>>>> If one uses that image and story, it does matter what is happening in
>>>> the story.
>>>> Nancy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 11:37 AM Chanan Mittal <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> A further observation, s’il vous plait.
>>>>>
>>>>> "By what  name should I address you, maiden; for your face is not
>>>>> mortal, nor has your voice a human ring to it. Surely you are a goddess?".
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>> The poet of LA FIGLIA utilizes a remark by Aeneas that underscores the
>>>>> divine aspect of the maiden he comes across in his own romantic context of
>>>>> Emily Hale to stress the need for transcending the merely human and
>>>>> embracing the divine in that relationship. “Weave, weave the sunlight in
>>>>> your hair.”
>>>>>
>>>>> CR
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 9:27 AM Materer, Timothy J. <
>>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The epigraph to LA FIGLIA, “O quam te memorem virgo ...” literally
>>>>>> translated to “O how shall I remember you virgin” proved prophetic
>>>>>> vis-a-vis Emily Hale, in that she became for him an object of memory.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In about an hour, I’ll be discussing this poem with my adult ed
>>>>>> class, so a further observation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It’s ok to pun on “memorem,” but the literal word is not “memory.”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "O quam te memorem  virgo. . . ." It comes from the first book of the
>>>>>> Aeneid, where Aeneas's  mother Venus, disguised as a virgin huntress, meets
>>>>>> him in the woods at  Carthage and speaks to him. Aeneas answers: "O-quam te
>>>>>> memorem, virgo? namque  haud tibi voltus / mortalis, nec vox hominem sonat;
>>>>>> o dea certe!" "By what  name should I address you, maiden; for your face is
>>>>>> not mortal, nor has your  voice a human ring to it. Surely you are a
>>>>>> goddess?". .
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * Some see the poem as a meditation on Aeneas’ parting from Dido, but
>>>>>> Gordon and others as his parting from Emily Hale. Timothy Materer English
>>>>>> Department, University of Missouri The James Merrill
>>>>>> Listserv http://faculty.missouri.edu/materert/Merrill/list.html
>>>>>> <http://faculty.missouri.edu/materert/Merrill/list.html> --THIS FICTIVE
>>>>>> SPACE WE HERE INHABIT IS / THE STOP TO TIME *
>>>>>>
>>>>>