"Reasons" are not justifications. Everyone tells themselves "reasons."

But we may learn more in 2020 when his letters to Emily are released.  

On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 8:31 PM, Chanan Mittal <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Eliot may have his reasons, albeit unbeknownst to us. 


On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 8:26 PM Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Why shift to the passive voice? Eliot let her believe by spending 30 years in correspondence, visits, and Burnt Norton moments, then simply married Valerie without even telling Hale. It did not just "not  culminate"--it was done to her.

And I am not the only one who thinks Aeneas did a terrible thing. Aeneas, for one, knew his own guilt. And one early member of the London Virgil Society spent pages on how horrific his actions were and how devastating they were for Dido. Even Eliot acknowledged that Dido was abandoned, though he, as often, found justifications.

And yes, the tragedy is Dido's, but the guilt and wrong are Aeneas's. At least they had a very sexual love affair and Aeneas affirmed his own anguish later in Book 6.

On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 8:13 PM, Chanan Mittal <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Reminds me of Aeneas and Dido. 


On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 8:10 PM Chanan Mittal <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
And because it did not culminate in marriage, ended rather tragically for her. 


On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 8:07 PM Chanan Mittal <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
The story is romantic but, for whatever reasons, did not culminate in marriage. 


On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 3:22 PM Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Given that Emily Hale always believed Eliot would marry her if he were free (while still married, and after Vivienne's death that he had taken a vow of celibacy), and that she believed it for many reasons and many years--they corresponded for thirty years, and that he visited her in the US and she visited him in England--and that he then married Valerie without telling her and she learned of it--as I recall--from a newspaper, and that she then had a breakdown, I don't think it is really much of a Valentine story or about love.

The memories CR quotes are from the day Eliot and Emily went to Burnt Norton together. But that did not presage any commitment despite the thirty year relationship (not counting the beginning when he was at Harvard and is reported to have said he loved her) or seem to mean she might at least have been informed of the impending marriage.

This story is tragic, not romantic.

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 7:16 PM, Cox, Carrol <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
I haven't read these posts yet, but the subject line echoed something I'd been lazily going over in my head: What was the worst really good poem in the English language.

Here are some of the candidates.

Houseman, Epitaph to an Army of Mercenaries
Yeats, And Irish Airman Forsees His Death
Yeats, Easter 1916
Kipling, White Man's Burden
Rochester, Song of a Young Lady to Her Ancient Lover
Cowper, The Castaway
Jonson, To Penshurst
Newbold, Vitai Lampada
Perhaps Cowper, The Castaway

There are possibly other candidates. Aggressively beautiful poems which, in some way, are rotten at their core.


An possibly, Eliot, Portrait of a Lady

-----Original Message-----
From: T. S. Eliot Discussion forum. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Rickard A. Parker
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 1:26 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: The Love Song of T.S. Eliot and Emily Hale

Based on the "From the Archives" in the title we probably have already seen this account of Eliot's visit to Emily Hale at Scripps College. It looks like Scripps wanted to add a bit of romance to their website on Valentine's Day.

From the Archives: The Love Song of T.S. Eliot and Emily Hale
By Joseph Maddrey
February 14, 2018

Scripps College (The Women's College)
Claremont, California