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"Reasons" are not justifications. Everyone tells themselves "reasons." But we may learn more in 2020 when his letters to Emily are released. On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 8:31 PM, Chanan Mittal <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Eliot may have his reasons, albeit unbeknownst to us. > > CR > > On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 8:26 PM Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> Why shift to the passive voice? Eliot let her believe by spending 30 >> years in correspondence, visits, and Burnt Norton moments, then simply >> married Valerie without even telling Hale. It did not just "not >> culminate"--it was done to her. >> >> And I am not the only one who thinks Aeneas did a terrible thing. Aeneas, >> for one, knew his own guilt. And one early member of the London Virgil >> Society spent pages on how horrific his actions were and how devastating >> they were for Dido. Even Eliot acknowledged that Dido was abandoned, though >> he, as often, found justifications. >> >> And yes, the tragedy is Dido's, but the guilt and wrong are Aeneas's. At >> least they had a very sexual love affair and Aeneas affirmed his own >> anguish later in Book 6. >> Nancy >> >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 8:13 PM, Chanan Mittal <[log in to unmask]> >> wrote: >> >>> Reminds me of Aeneas and Dido. >>> >>> CR >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 8:10 PM Chanan Mittal <[log in to unmask]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> And because it did not culminate in marriage, ended rather tragically >>>> for her. >>>> >>>> CR >>>> >>>> On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 8:07 PM Chanan Mittal <[log in to unmask]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> The story is romantic but, for whatever reasons, did not culminate in >>>>> marriage. >>>>> >>>>> CR >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 3:22 PM Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Given that Emily Hale always believed Eliot would marry her if he >>>>>> were free (while still married, and after Vivienne's death that he had >>>>>> taken a vow of celibacy), and that she believed it for many reasons and >>>>>> many years--they corresponded for thirty years, and that he visited her in >>>>>> the US and she visited him in England--and that he then married Valerie >>>>>> without telling her and she learned of it--as I recall--from a newspaper, >>>>>> and that she then had a breakdown, I don't think it is really much of a >>>>>> Valentine story or about love. >>>>>> >>>>>> The memories CR quotes are from the day Eliot and Emily went to Burnt >>>>>> Norton together. But that did not presage any commitment despite the thirty >>>>>> year relationship (not counting the beginning when he was at Harvard and is >>>>>> reported to have said he loved her) or seem to mean she might at least have >>>>>> been informed of the impending marriage. >>>>>> >>>>>> This story is tragic, not romantic. >>>>>> Nancy >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 7:16 PM, Cox, Carrol <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I haven't read these posts yet, but the subject line echoed >>>>>>> something I'd been lazily going over in my head: What was the worst really >>>>>>> good poem in the English language. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Here are some of the candidates. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Houseman, Epitaph to an Army of Mercenaries >>>>>>> Yeats, And Irish Airman Forsees His Death >>>>>>> Yeats, Easter 1916 >>>>>>> Kipling, White Man's Burden >>>>>>> Rochester, Song of a Young Lady to Her Ancient Lover >>>>>>> Cowper, The Castaway >>>>>>> Jonson, To Penshurst >>>>>>> Newbold, Vitai Lampada >>>>>>> Perhaps Cowper, The Castaway >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There are possibly other candidates. Aggressively beautiful poems >>>>>>> which, in some way, are rotten at their core. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Carol >>>>>>> >>>>>>> An possibly, Eliot, Portrait of a Lady >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: T. S. Eliot Discussion forum. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Rickard A. Parker >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 1:26 PM >>>>>>> To: [log in to unmask] >>>>>>> Subject: The Love Song of T.S. Eliot and Emily Hale >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Based on the "From the Archives" in the title we probably have >>>>>>> already seen this account of Eliot's visit to Emily Hale at Scripps >>>>>>> College. It looks like Scripps wanted to add a bit of romance to their >>>>>>> website on Valentine's Day. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From the Archives: The Love Song of T.S. Eliot and Emily Hale >>>>>>> By Joseph Maddrey >>>>>>> February 14, 2018 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Scripps College (The Women's College) >>>>>>> Claremont, California >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.scrippscollege.edu/news/features/from-the- >>>>>>> archives-the-love-song-of-t-s-eliot-and-emily-hale >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>