My vision of Eliot has never been one of someone "as usual, lost in the 
rhythms..." etc. "As usual" Rick? Now who's pulling whom's leg? I'm sure 
rhythms can be seductive, à la E's remarks on succumbing to the 
influence of Shakespeare, but Mr. Deliberate Goes Unconscious for a 
Spell? I don't think so. On the other hand, your answer for his 
"suppression" of St. Narcissus could still be quite right, ie. a poem 
that he could not bring to the satisfactory completion of its action and 
abandoned, or, as Guy Brown put it, "selected against."

I'll say for CR's interpretation of his three quotes, he at least 
presents some unifying threads, that still need support, but certainly 
exceed statements that amount to nothing more than "No, they're not."

On Carrol's invitation, what to say but been there, done that.


Ken A

On 2/21/2017 5:40 PM, Richard Seddon wrote:
> I am not so sure that he was satisfied with lines 31 to the end.  They 
> jar from the rhythms of the first part.  He loses the rhythm of the 
> first three quarters of the poem.
> It is as if he was writing along, and as usual, was lost in the 
> rhythms, with words flowing with the sounds and meter when he lost his 
> muse
> I think that TWL may have partially been a recovery of that muse.
> I agree totally with the poems initial ego being Augustine.  The 
> initial setting is easily Libya.
> Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 21, 2017, at 1:55 PM, Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask] 
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>> One fascinating fact about "the Death of Saint Narcissus" is the way 
>> it changed from the first to the published versions. Originally, he 
>> walked in the streets of Carthage. That is a link not only to 
>> Augustine and /TWL/ but to a long sequence of references in the 
>> poetry to the rise of the Roman Empire.
>> If anyone is interested, the /TSE Annual/ coming out this month has 
>> an article I have done on those references as they appear in /TWL/ 
>> and the historical background. I would guess just at this point that 
>> for Narcissus the emphasis is on desire and Eliot's horror at that, 
>> especially as the images become increasingly disturbed and disturbing 
>> until the narrator is an old man who raped a girl.
>> Nancy
>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 2:27 PM, Carrol Cox <[log in to unmask] 
>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>>     Richard Seddon: The only thing i see in common among your quotes
>>     is Eliot.
>>     ======
>>     Someone (Fish?) pointed out that the fact that a text has been
>>     interpreted in a given way proves that it _can be_ so
>>     interpreted. In other words, no interpretation can be _proved_
>>     false. But as someone once said in a different context, "Everyone
>>     has the right to be a damn fool, but X abuses the privilege." If
>>     I were to assert that "We should like to know how that was done"
>>     referred to an episode of anal intercourse among Moore's
>>     11th-grade classmates, you could not demonstrate that I was
>>     wrong, but you could dismiss me as a damn fool.
>>     :--)
>>     Carrol