What I meant was:

John the Baptist was beheaded for his audacity to censure Herod's lust for
his brother's wife.


On Sunday, August 23, 2015, Chanan Mittal <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>  "I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
> Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all”—
> He would apprise them of their state of sinfulness, the sin of lust.
> But they would disclaim any such motive, saying "That is not it, at all."
> There was earlier an allusion to John the Baptist who had his head severed
> and brought in upon a platter for committing such an audacity.
> CR
> On Sunday, August 23, 2015, Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml',[log in to unmask]);>> wrote:
>> Exactly where in the poem is this:  "to warn the ladies of the sins of
>> pleasure"?
>> Weeping and praying are not necessarily ascetic. The nearest is the line
>> about fasting. But the "Pervigilium," which Eliot added and removed, is
>> about anxiety and fear and shyness--all the characteristics Crawford
>> demonstrates.
>> The line about Lazarus is part of an allusion to "To His Coy Mistress,"
>> hardly about ascetic self-control.
>> Were this a much later poem, it would likely be there, and it would be
>> explicit. The ascetic images in early work is more linked to Narcissus and
>> Sebastion, but they are about desires, terrible ones of rape and murder.
>> N
>> >>> Chanan Mittal 08/23/15 2:10 PM >>>
>> Well, Prufrock weeps and fasts, weeps and prays. He would like to be a
>> Lazarus to warn the ladies of the sins of pleasure. There is an ascetic
>> side to him for sure. He might fail there but he definitely aspires to it.
>> CR
>> On Sunday, August 23, 2015, Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>> It probably is sensual, given the lines before and after about dressing
>>> like a Paris dandy.
>>> But it is not about asceticism. His discussions of sex then (he was a
>>> virgin and not happy about it in any of his letters) were about his desires
>>> rising up and his wish that he had gotten rid of his virginity long ago.
>>> And the adolescent and vulgar sexuality of his Bolo poems and others
>>> reveals a preoccupation with things about which he seems to have
>>> fantasized--some of them, as in "The Love Song of St. Sebastion,"
>>> disturbingly sadistic.
>>> At any rate, when he writes of it in letters, as to Aiken, it is about
>>> fear and shyness, not asceticism.
>>> One of the great contributions of Crawford's "Young Eliot" is to move
>>> beyond the notion that the late, constricted Eliot was always there.
>>> Nancy
>>> >>> Chanan Mittal 08/23/15 12:40 PM >>>
>>> In the context of the poem a sensual delight. The ascetic in him must
>>> abjure all temptations of desire.
>>> CR
>>> On Sunday, August 23, 2015, Tom Gray <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>> Peaches also constitute a natural laxative which would also be of
>>>> concern for an ageing man.
>>>> On Sat, Aug 22, 2015 at 4:07 PM, Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> This and many other readings are online. But it is not clear which, if
>>>>> any, apply. There is a website purporting to expose the errors (many) in
>>>>> the "Gradesaver" account of the poem, but it  (the ostensible correcting
>>>>> site), unfortunately, creates new ones just as egregious. It says, for
>>>>> example, that it is not accurate to say that "trousers rolled" is a new,
>>>>> bohemian style--though Conrad Aiken said at the time it was. So what it and
>>>>> other sites say is varied and confused.
>>>>> But here are some things about peaches. To "eat a peach" is slang for
>>>>> cunnilingus. I cannot find how old that is. Rick, can you trace it back?
>>>>> In China, where they were first cultivated, peaches are symbols of
>>>>> immortality.
>>>>> Also, "It has special significance in Chinese culture: the peach has
>>>>> mystical attributes, and supposedly brings luck, abundance and protection."
>>>>> Peach pits are poisonous, so biting one might do more than break a
>>>>> tooth (one of the anxieties possibly attributed to Prufrock).
>>>>> But it is not clear that Prufrock is really aging; Eliot was young
>>>>> (22), and he said in an interviews in 1962 that Prufrock was partly himself
>>>>> and partly another, older person. His fear of growing old may not mean he
>>>>> is doing so.
>>>>> Etymological dictionary:
>>>>> peach (n.)
>>>>> <> [image:
>>>>> Look up peach at]
>>>>> <> c. 1400 (late 12c.
>>>>> as a surname), from Old French pesche "peach, peach tree" (Old North
>>>>> French peske, Modern French pêche), and directly from Medieval Latin
>>>>> pesca, from Late Latin pessica, variant of persica "peach, peach
>>>>> tree," from Latin malum Persicum, literally "Persian apple,"
>>>>> translating Greek Persikon malon, from Persis "Persia" (see Persian
>>>>> <>).
>>>>> In ancient Greek Persikos could mean "Persian" or "the peach." The
>>>>> tree is native to China, but reached Europe via Persia. By 1663 William
>>>>> Penn observed peaches in cultivation on American plantations. *Meaning
>>>>> "attractive woman" is attested from 1754*; that of "good person" is
>>>>> from 1904. Peaches and cream in reference to a type of complexion is
>>>>> from 1901. Peach blossom as a color is from 1702. Georgia has been
>>>>> the Peach State since 1939.* [emphasis mine]*
>>>>> (Given the date of "attractive woman," and the metaphor for
>>>>> complexion, the sexual suggestion may be apt.)
>>>>> Nancy
>>>>> >>> "Rickard A. Parker" <[log in to unmask]> 08/22/15 3:18 PM >>>
>>>>> On Sat, 22 Aug 2015 12:01:42 -0500, Carrol Cox <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >"Do I dare to eat a peach?"
>>>>> >
>>>>> >Is "peach" a metaphor or, if not, what in 1910ff made it daring to
>>>>> eat a
>>>>> >peach?
>>>>> Prufrock is aging. He wonders if he should take up new fashions like a
>>>>> new hair style or wearing his trousers cuffed. Or, perhaps more
>>>>> importantly, his teeth are going bad. If he eats a peach he may bite into
>>>>> the pit and lose a tooth or two.
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Rick Parker