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No personal attack intended at all , Nancy - I just ventured to disagree
(albeit a lot) with that kind of  opinion.

On 22 December 2014 at 21:53, Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> I do not like personal attacks and prefer not to engage with the
> statement that I am "over-zealous" and " self-righteous." How is one to
> evaluate such name-calling?
> Yes, I know Turing's name. Typo.
> Nancy
>
> >>> David Boyd  12/22/14 4:19 PM >>>
> Nancy
>
> As early as the mid/late 1960's, when a 16 year old David joined the
> British Foreign Office / Diplomatic Service, women selected for same
> were
> required to resign when or if they got married, whereas had I got
> married
> my wife and family would have been generously funded on any overseas
> postings.
>
> Was this policy outrageously unfair to women and just plain wrong? -
> yes,
> of course it was. But did that make the British Government of the era
> culpable?
>
> That was then, and this is now, surely?
>
> I do most respectfully suggest that you seem to be unduly-zealous in
> condemning past generations for their failure to march to your own,
> very-different, 2014, moral compass and that there is little to be
> gained
> except perhaps for feelings of self-righteousness in doing so: many
> aspects
> of morality etc surely are indeed relative, according to the era and
> social
> mores involved?
>
> And BTW it was Alan *Turing* who fell foul of  that draconian 1950's UK
> law
> enforcement re homosexuality?
>
> On 21 December 2014 at 22:04, Nancy Gish  wrote:
>
> > Well, one does not inhale second-hand gay--even if it mattered.
> > I'm feeling more than ambivalent about Peter's wish that he did not
> know
> > his hero's moral failings. One can, of course, acknowledge good things
> > in someone who also had major failings. Pound was a Fascist, but then
> he
> > was not teaching it to children or college students. And either way it
> > does not change the value of his poetry. If anyone turned to Fascism
> > because of his broadcasts, it might alter any judgment.
> > But that young woman who deserved the top prize in pathology
> presumably
> > did not get it, and she was hurt by his bigotry. That is a serious
> > difference. So, too, was the young gay man who, I gather, lost his
> job.
> > These actions do have major impact. Think of Alan Turling who was a
> > major factor in winning WWII but hounded out of work and destroyed:
> > "In 1952, Turing was arrested and tried for homosexuality, then a
> > criminal offence. To avoid prison, he accepted injections of oestrogen
> > for a year, which were intended to neutralise his libido. In that era,
> > homosexuals were considered a security risk as they were open to
> > blackmail. Turing's security clearance was withdrawn, meaning he could
> > no longer work for GCHQ, the post-war successor to Bletchley Park.
> > He committed suicide on 7 June, 1954."
> > Is total relativism really ok--any more than total "thought policing"
> > when prejudice can do that?
> > I'm not suggesting an answer--it's a question.
> > Nancy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >>> Kate Nichols  12/21/14 4:17 PM >>>
> > My Professor in college who taught the Modernist class was an open
> > homosexual and smoked cigarettes in the classroom.  Amusing that in
> > today's
> > society, his being gay would not matter at all and would not be used
> > against him, but he may be fired for smoking cigarettes in the
> > classroom.
> >
> > Kate of Florida
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 3:49 PM, Peter Dillane
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Folks,
> > >
> > > I seem to be tainted with cynicism and moral relativism in this
> > company
> > > where everyone has such concern about the issues. Barry Spurr is a
> > > political player not some dear little thing with wide eyes cruelly
> > hunted
> > > down. He was engaged in the political game at the big end of town
> and
> > in
> > > this country that is a brutally combative polar dialectic without
> > nuance. I
> > > find it hard to believe someone could get the job he had without
> > knowing
> > > the score. The past thirty years in this country one or the other
> side
> > of
> > > cultural politics has used its time in power to end the careers of
> the
> > > other side. Neither has the moral call on track record. He had a
> > government
> > > role which will deprive others of their careers perhaps for good. I
> am
> > not
> > > > )but my point is  that this is not the story of an ingenue butterfly
> > > crushed on the wheel. I think it does matter that he has said these
> > things.
> > > I don’t think the public interest argument is a strong justification
> > for
> > > disseminating these private conversations although someone who
> deeply
> > cared
> > > for the national curriculum and was opposed to his position would
> see
> > it
> > > more substantial as a justification for publishing.
> > >
> > > For the record in terms of him being hounded I have not noticed that
> > > anyone much cares, there’s been a tiny hue and no cry really. He
> > resigned
> > > and was not dismissed. I suppose he has been pushed but the public
> > fact is
> > > that he jumped and his University has chosen not to say much at all.
> > His
> > > political masters have said next to nothing but they did not back
> him
> > up.
> > > Part of what he was reported to have said had a tilt at them so he
> may
> > be a
> > > bit friendless.  The racist comments were not particularly vile the
> > > misogynist ones were. Reading between the lines he has accepted a
> > pretty
> > > lame settlement with the publishers on the proviso they publish no
> > more so
> > > there must be more -  and worse. It doesn’t matter that these were
> > private,
> > > nor that he should have known about the porous cyber conduit he was
> > using.
> > > What is is. He chose at a good age with a life of profession> I was
> > taught by a terrific chap. a professor of Pathology. Erudite,
> > > astute, lovely educational technique, approachable and charming.
> There
> > was
> > > a prize for the top of the year in Pathology. This prize was more
> than
> > > itself because it opened doors in your career path. A friend of mine
> > worked
> > > in the next room to that in which the prize was being discussed by
> the
> > > professors  one year and heard my hero professor say “Clearly the
> top
> > > student on performance is this young woman, but she is a young woman
> > and it
> > > will be wasted on her.” I still recall some of his lectures and
> > broader
> > > moral stands on issues as very worthy. I do wish I could have them
> > > untainted by the knowledge of what is.
> > >
> > > On another occasion I was talking to a lecturer in the English
> > Department
> > > where I studied in the 1970s and said I very much admired the
> emeritus
> > > professor who could recite great mountains of Njal’s saga or Morte
> > D’Arthur
> > > from heart and sometimes he became teary during these performances
> and
> > what
> > > a terrific person he was and so on. She said to me “Mmm yes I guess
> he
> > does
> > > have some engaging features but during the 50s he disposed of one
> > academic
> > > who was giving trouble by recording a conversation in which the man
> > > admitted to being homosexual." I wish I didn’t know that bit too.
> > >
> > > By the way Jim you mentioned that you hoped this wouldn’t tarnish
> > > Australia. Mate the way we are treating refugees on the high seas to
> > our
> > > North and our International non contribution to battling climate
> > change are
> > > hard acts to follow in the tarnishing department.
> > >
> > > Cheers Folks
> > >
> > > Pete
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Karen "Kate" Nichols
> > Premier Florida Realty of SWFL
> > C: 239-849-3064
> > F: 239-463-4826
> > Search SW Florida homes
> >
>