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I don't think I meant to say anything to conflate them. Eliot certainly did not take well to any attempt at humiliating him despite his fairly frequent evocations of guilt.
Nancy

>>> John Angell Grant  12/22/14 1:28 PM >>>
Humiliation (a device for controlling people) has little to do with guilt,
in my view, although authority structures like to conflate the two.


On Sunday, December 21, 2014, Nancy Gish  wrote:

> If Spurr ever abases himself, perhaps we will know. But Dimmesdale
> genuinely suffers guilt; where is that in at least what we were sent to
> read?
> Eliot does seem to have carried around a lot of guilt, but he never, for
> example, republished the one book that got much of the reaction of
> anti-semitism: After Strange Gods. I don't see how he is much like
> Dimmesdale or how Spurr is like either.
> Nancy
>
> >>> John Angell Grant  12/21/14 6:50 PM >>>
> Dimmesdale's self-basement on the town square stage links
> self-humiliation and self-a basement with Puritan Christianity (Eliot's
> family heritage; I understand the Unitarian/Puritan split in New England
> Christianity).  It's the same self-abasement (in my view) celebrated by St
> John as a deep Christian virtue.  Spurr alludes to this in his book.   In
> flirting with email Russian roulette, could Spurr, on some level, have been
> doing the same thing?
>
> On Saturday, December 20, 2014, Nancy Gish  wrote:
>
> > Unless things are very different in Australia, everyone knows in a
> > university email list that it can be read by the university computing
> > people. Expecting privacy there--or, really, anywhere on the internet--is
> > oddly naive.
> > Also, there is nothing like this in St. John of the Cross or in The
> > Scarlet Letter. What is the parallel? Hester Prynne never set out to be
> > exposed, and St. John was a mystic focused on his own soul. (And yes, I
> > have read The Dark Night of the Soul.)
> > Nancy
> >
> > >>> P  12/20/14 1:44 PM >>>
> > There is such a thing as scapegoating in which people project their own
> > dark side onto others as in The Scarlet Letter.
> > The violation of people's expected privacy does make them victims.
> > Peter M.
> >
> > John Angell Grant  wrote:
> >
> > >By playing a race-baiting game with a colleague on university email, was
> > there some part of Spurr that wanted to be caught and exposed?  Could
> such
> > a motivation correlate to the Puritan humiliation emotion that Eliot
> > channeled from St. John of the Cross, Hawthorne, and others?
> > >
> > >On Saturday, December 20, 2014, James Loucks <
> > [log in to unmask]  > wrote:
> > >
> > >A sad story, certainly. This and the Sony blowup underline the
> importance
> > of reticence in emails, as they seem to be very hackable and leak-prone.
> > >
> > >
> > >I'm just now mining Spurr's very fine and thorough book on TSE and
> > Christianity for material to add to my TSE database. Parenthetically, I
> > note that he has made extensive use of Roger Kojecky's equally fine book
> on
> > TSE as religious and social critic. Both books are exhaustively
> documented.
> > >
> > >
> > >Happy holidays to all. I'm glad to be back on the TSE list.  --  Jim
> > Loucks
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >On Saturday, December 20, 2014 10:18 AM, "[log in to unmask]
> 
> > " <[log in to unmask] 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Difficult these days to distill the truth in many reports.  More
> > difficult still to ascertain someone's intention.  Not offered as an
> > excuse.  In the end we may have to rely upon the known facts--the
> > resignation--and our senses of "possibility and probability."  [Easy
> guess
> > whom I am echoing there.]  I hope this doesn't tarnish Eliot.  Or Oxford.
> > Or poetry.  Or Australia.
> > >
> > >Happy Holidays one and all wherever you are!
> > >
> > >Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Dec 20, 2014, at 10:00 AM, Nancy Gish  wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Did any of you who think this is "sad" or "needless" read what he
> > actually said? Did you think what that means for any student in his
> classes?
> > >> Faculty who say deeply bigoted and hateful things are what is sad, and
> > they have no place in a classroom. Even he seems to have realized how
> > extreme and wrong he was, since he simply accepted.
> > >> How many of you would sit in a classroom with someone who called
> > Christians human rubbish tips or men pricks or white people honkies or
> > Brits "the scum of the earth"? Doesn't that include some of you?
> > >> This kind of language is not a joke and not without terrible damage:
> it
> > is the begining of patterns of cruelty--whether he engaged in it or not.
> > When humans want to hurt and hate, they start with dehumanizing names.
> And
> > it would get anyone in any university I have been in (four) dismissed.
> > >> I am astonished to see this treated as somehow a wrong to him.
> > >> Nancy
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>>> Peter Dillane  12/20/14 7:34 AM >>>
> > >> He had his day in court last week suing the website but he settled on
> > the basis they could keep up what was already up and they agreed not to
> > publish any more so one might suppose there was more extravagant stuff to
> > come ;  the next day he offered his resignation and it was accepted
> without
> > comment
> > >>
> > >> Pete
> > >>
> > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>
> > >>> On 20 Dec 2014, at 10:18 pm, David Boyd  wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> It is - a needless loss.
> > >>>
> > >>>> On 20 December 2014 at 03:43, P  wrote:
> > >>>> That's sad.
> > >>>> Peter M.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> "Rickard A. Parker"  wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> >
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/11301481/Australias-first-professor-of-poetry-resigns-over-leaked-racist-emails.html
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The Telegraph
> > >>>>> By Jonathan Pearlman, Sydney
> > >>>>> 2:22PM GMT 18 Dec 2014
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Australia's first professor of poetry resigns over leaked racist
> > emails
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Professor Barry Spurr, an expert on T S Eliot who helped to write
> > Australia's school curriculum, resigns over controversial leaked emails
> > >>>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >--
> > >Sent from IPhone
> >
>
>
> --
> Sent from IPhone
>


-- 
Sent from IPhone