Yes Ken the one of her looking over her shoulder at the camera from 1931 is pretty tired and sad I think. Pete From: T. S. Eliot Discussion forum. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ken Armstrong Sent: Friday, 1 November 2013 10:24 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: "That corpse you planted..." Thanks, Pete. I vaguely thought some such might be at work, but I think in some of the photos I've seen her body language overcomes conventions and technological limitations. To be sure, hers seemed to be such a hard and sad life it's not a surprise that it could come through as such in those early photographs. Ken A On 10/31/2013 5:58 PM, Peter Dillane wrote: Hi Ken, They are difficult images to make sense of but I think there is a problem to do with convention about photos. I was reminded of this over the weekend at an exhibition of brass band photos from the 19th Century. Hundreds of faces not one smile and many of these were taken at picnic race meetings and very informal. Similarly even football teams prior to the 1950s - not a smile. The historians of photography have discussed this in some things I have read but cant find right now but I like Mark Twain's line : "A photograph is a most important document, and there is nothing more damning to go down to posterity than a silly, foolish smile caught and fixed forever". So I wonder what one can make of internal life from old photos. Cheers Pete From: T. S. Eliot Discussion forum. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ken Armstrong Sent: Friday, 1 November 2013 8:38 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: "That corpse you planted..." Me neither. In the majority of the others, the resolution is so low that it seems you could read into them what you wanted. Only in two or three of them does she seem to be the stricken Viv we've come to think of her as. On 10/31/2013 5:17 PM, P wrote: I wouldn't have thought it were her. P.