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CR  -- When copied and pasted into an address bar, that url goes to 
"VimeUhOh".  I.e. no videocomes up. Are you sure you've got the whole 
&/or correct url?

Thanks,
Ken

On 1/22/2013 2:17 PM, Chokh Raj wrote:
> just a thought
>
> Please watch the video at 27.10 minutes where Sweeney relates a story...
> Watch it closely, and it might strike you it's Sweeney's own story 
> that he
> is relating -- here, I guess, Sweeney and this protagonist of the 
> story are
> only doubles -- the boy who plays Sweeney has played it quite brilliantly.
>
> CR
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Chokh Raj <[log in to unmask]>
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 22, 2013 12:02 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Sweeney Agonistes: Eliot’s raw underbelly
>
> Thanks, Peter Dillane and Peter Montgomery, for some keen observations.
>
> Well, here's a bit of a video, if you like, on Samson Agonistes. It 
> begins with a reading of TWL and turns the pub scene of A Game of 
> Chess, I guess, into the opening scene of SA - after about 9.15 
> minutes of it.
>
> http://vimeo.com/12586841
>
> CR
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Peter Dillane <[log in to unmask]>
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 22, 2013 7:01 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Sweeney Agonistes: Eliot’s raw underbelly
>
> Hi Peter,
> it always gets me is what I think.
> I don't know really and would appreciate any help here you know.
> Sometimes I wonder if it is  a case of something like "if we shadows 
> have offended"  not the same sentiment, not an apologia, nor a 
> reminder of the dramatic frame or edge of the stage, but a  claim to 
> be something less than a character.
> If you take the next line that there are four of us down here it could 
> suggest a different status of the women vs the men with the women 
> accepting the status of nothingness. But then how can you logically 
> make that statement other than in those odysseus and Polyphemus 
> stories  ( and other folk traditions) that say no one hurt me or my 
> name is nobody.
> I am not too keen on this idea as everything about this work confounds 
> your attempts to see character outside the confines of their lines and 
> the rhythms of those lines. I am not persuaded by Carol Smith's 
> suggestion that the dramatic world of Sweeney Agonistes had characters 
> who were "flat to fit the world they moved in". Because I don't see 
> them moving in any world. And anyway I don't find Doris and Dusty 
> flat, where Smith sees vulgarity and superstition or a social type 
> "lower-class London prostitutes" ( plenty not to like about that 
> analysis) I would say I see people jigged up in masks declaiming.
> I suppose this all boils down to my bleating against the question of 
> how many children Lady Macbeth had, but I do think it is a powerful 
> statement that there's nobody up here.
> A friend of mine when we were young went to the home of his girlfriend 
> and had the door opened  to him by her father. As he peered around the 
> older man he asked "Is anyone home?" and got the reply "Well I'm 
> someone". There's something in that kind of claim you know if you have 
> the power to prove it.
>
> Cheers Pete
>
>
>
>
> On 22/01/2013, at 9:55 PM, P wrote:
>
>> And what do you make of:
>> "Nobody's up here?"
>>
>> I always get the impression they're making ready for Guy Fawkes day.
>> P. M.
>>
>> Peter Dillane <[log in to unmask] 
>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>>
>> Being introduced  before your entrance then not actually having much 
>> to say keeps you ominous I think.  That wonderment Doris has that Sam 
>> is the Knave of Hearts is quite disturbing. After the earlier riffing 
>> she and Dusty do on Sam being a nice boy and so on.   Puts you on 
>> edge for a predator. Then that nice play on "Loot" which is his rank 
>> no - except he would be phoenetically a  "leftenant" in Britain so 
>> Loot gets a focus and  what will he loot ? But he does the Ringmaster 
>> introductions and then there is silence as he becomes part of 
>> the chorus. Maybe its as well we dont find out where the plot goes.
>> Pete
>>
>>     ----- Original Message -----
>>     *From:* P <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>     *To:* [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>     *Sent:* Tuesday, January 22, 2013 3:52 PM
>>     *Subject:* Re: Sweeney Agonistes: Eliot’s raw underbelly
>>
>>     The flat accent could make him stand out, perhaps in an ominous
>>     way. Eliot was always sensitive to such details.
>>     P. M.
>>
>>     Peter Dillane <[log in to unmask]
>>     <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>>
>>     Sam’s interesting isn’t he. Veteran of a celebrated single minded
>>     force. I suppose the CEF would have been pin up boys with Ypres
>>     still in the mind. I think anyone who brings an aphoristic pair
>>     like K and K around to see some girls has more than one arrow in
>>     his quiver.
>>     Pete
>>     *From:*T. S. Eliot Discussion forum. [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>     *On Behalf Of *P
>>     *Sent:* Monday, 21 January 2013 4:32 PM
>>     *To:* [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>     *Subject:* Re: Sweeney Agonistes: Eliot’s raw underbelly
>>     I tend to trend your way Pete, but surely there are them's as
>>     cain't or won't. And what's your take on the Canadian? ;->
>>     Pierre
>>
>>     Peter Dillane <[log in to unmask]
>>     <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>>     Hey CR,
>>     this is not at all the way I see Sweeney A.  I only have small
>>     observations to make but  to the extent that Lehmann sees it in a
>>     particular kind of place - a course (/sic/) pub - and that the
>>     bamboo tree business is supposed to be a referential nod to any
>>     worldly idyll viz Gauguin's world. Well I can't see it.  I know
>>     that the boys arrive and Doris calls down to them in the street
>>     but the notion that the play can be imagined in a setting is at
>>     odds with the irreal sense of space and time.   And the Bamboo
>>     tree is more a link to the  music hall than the actual South
>>     Seas. ( I think of Judy Garland in Meet me in St Louis doing the
>>     song by the way)
>>     Cheers Pete.
>>
>>         ----- Original Message -----
>>         *From:*Chokh Raj <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>         *To:*[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>         *Sent:*Monday, January 21, 2013 3:31 PM
>>         *Subject:*Re: Sweeney Agonistes: Eliot’s raw underbelly
>>         Sweeney Agonistes: Eliot’s raw underbelly
>>         Is Poetry Fiction?
>>          by
>>         Gary Lehmann
>>         http://www.poetrykit.org/pkmag/pkmag11/029.htm
>>         CR
>>
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