Thanks, David. I would perhaps add 'circumstances' to 'innate personality traits'. Both, I suppose, account for "what might have been and what has been". 

Merry Christmas!


David Boyd <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Just as people tend to be extroverts or introverts, perhaps innate personality traits lead them into either asceticism or affirmation. Eliot, maybe, was a dyed-in-wool aesthete, but perhaps, especially post-Valerie, mellowed considerably in his later years.
Your article was interesting, CR. I've always associated 'East Coker' with Eliot at his finest: in a short poem, he evokes that which it took even Thomas Hardy exceedingly many more words to celebrate: it's a masterpiece of precise conciseness, yet such effective and reflective observation of ancestral agrarian village existence.
To me, but I don't think to the author of the article, the image of the dance is syonymous with and inseparable from that of Yeats - particularly eg the last stanza of 'Among Schoolchildren' .Whether this was deliberate on Eliot's part, or just a case of two great visionaries seeing the same thing, I'm not too sure of, though.
Happy Christmas Day !!

On 24 December 2012 18:44, Chokh Raj <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
"there we have been"

"The inner freedom from the practical desire,
The release from action and suffering, release from the inner
And the outer compulsion, yet surrounded
By a grace of sense, a white light still and moving,
Erhebung without motion, concentration
Without elimination"

a foretaste of paradise 



Chokh Raj <[log in to unmask]> wrote Sunday, December 23, 2012 8:30 AM: 

I was disappointed in the article you sent, David, on Eliot's Affirmative Way. In the first para itself there are three glaring distortions/misperceptions, one in each argument. The progress of thought, for instance, is from EC III to EC V and not in the reverse order. //Nor are epiphanical experiences as meaningless as "disturbing the dust ..."//  The half a (mis)quotation "We had the experience but ..." fructifies in the other half which is ignored. And the point about the failure to find grace in ordinary experience is fallacious. Here is my answer by way of an article. 
The "East Coker" Dance in T. S. Eliot's Four Quartets: An Affirmation of Place and Time 
By Karey Perkins


David Boyd <[log in to unmask]> wrote Saturday, December 22, 2012 4:55 AM: 

In case of any interest, please see the attached. [two attachments]

On 22 December 2012 01:46, P <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
I have always been disappointed at the lack of attention garnered by the Inklings compared to Yeats & Joyce.
P. M. 

David Boyd <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Interesting topic, thanks, CR.
Haven't read it in full, but curious, possibly, that the profound influence of the thinking of an Eliot contemporary, Charles Williams, both upon Eliot and many others, regarding negativity and affirmation isn't mentioned, and neither seems to be relevant religious aspects of 4Q
Prof. Grevel Lindop near Manchester UK is presently working on a biography of Charles Williams.

On 21 December 2012 16:11, Chokh Raj <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
"And we thank Thee that darkness reminds us of light."

The via negativa of 'The Waste Land'

The Aristotelian Mr. Eliot: Structure and Strategy in 'The Waste Land' 
By Timmerman, John H.
Yeats Eliot Review, Vol. 24, No. 2 
Summer 2007


Chokh Raj <[log in to unmask]> wrote Thursday, December 20, 2012 6:26 PM: 

T.S. Eliot
O Light Invisible
From The Rock