Dear Richard,
I agree that your example of the death camps is more comparable. I just watched a film on DVD called "In Darkness": it's about the Jews in the sewers of Lvov. They lived with filth and damp and rats and lice for 14 months until the Russians arrived and they were able to emerge. A Polish man--who had not really been all that great a person before (a thief, for example)--was the superintendent of all the sewer workers and knew the sewers like no one else. He showed them where to hide and got food for them all that time. It is both unbearable and inspiring (afterwards) to watch. Some were little children who had to be almost silent all that time and live in the dark and terrible interiors of the sewers. At one point, rain almost filled up their hiding place, and the sewer worker managed to get the lids open to lower the water.
For anyone interested, you can just google "Jews in sewers" with "Lvov" or not and a description comes up.
I don't know now anyone endures that either. About 10 survived and lived long lives in various places.

>>> Richard Seddon <[log in to unmask]> 11/19/12 12:39 PM >>>

Nancy wrote: "How does it outweigh total terror"

It does. A man looks around in sheer panic, sees his mate standing there, they grin at each other and both are immediately calmed.

Although heroism can be part of the experience , heroism is something totally different from the act of enduring of intense physical travail. The person enduring is not being brave. He/she is enduring. A different thing entirely.

A better example than suffragettes (who though brave physically endured little) would be the endurance of the female Jews within the death camps, or the mothers of abolished clans in Tibet or the US POW in North Vietnam some of whom like McCain endured for seemingly endless year upon year.

An anti-example is the POW in North Korea whose group identity was deliberately broken by his jailers. This process is often referred to as "brain washing". Many of these poor individuals, and that is what they were, individuals, simply laid down in their despondency and died.

Richard Seddon
Portales, NM