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Actually that description of Sweeney is very reminiscent of Wyndham Lewis social cariccatur which he called a 'tyro'. Worth checking out.
P.M.

Peter Dillane <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>yes I also CR  as most would I think but  I still ask myself why I engage in that economy of narrative collaboration when the poet goes out of his way to tease out who is who for  each event. 
>
>As Nancy also observed (paraphrasing from memory ) it is a poem of transient indistinct events with a grave menace in the background.  If there is a kind of slippage or indistinct view of person and place I cant see why I should be so sure of my presumptions that I know who is who. 
>
>The persons represented all are gravity bound to this room  and find themselves in specific locations except Sweeney who is also guarding something like the gates of hell  when the vista slips towards the river plate and  he also gets out from under the girl seamlessly and then  outside if that is him at the window. 
>
>outside with the nightingales.. I wonder what I am supposed to think about that circumscribing which is only apparent when you view him from inside.
>
>Cheers Pete
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Chokh Raj 
>  To: [log in to unmask] 
>  Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 1:56 PM
>  Subject: Re: Sweeney's golden grin?
>
>
>        Thanks, Pete. Much grist for my grind. 
>
>        "The person in the Spanish cape / Tries to sit on Sweeney’s knees"
>
>        I always thought "the man with heavy eyes" to be Sweeney who, apprehending the two ladies to be "suspect", declines the gambit, pretends fatigue with heavy eyes and departs.
>         
>        CR
>
>       
>
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>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  From: Peter Dillane <[log in to unmask]>; 
>  To: <[log in to unmask]>; 
>  Subject: Re: Sweeney's golden grin? 
>  Sent: Mon, Jul 30, 2012 3:00:56 AM 
>
>        Hi CR,
>
>
>         no I can't but who says the man with heavy eyes is Sweeney? The next stanza starts "The host with someone indistinct" which I would say could be said of all present except when explicitly say it is Sweeney whose knee is identified as the place to fall from. The stage setting is provided with specific locations but shifting naming of the characters. Now this is reminiscent of the alternate names of epic oral verse but it is self conscious here not entirely a nod to tradition. I feel as if there is a nightmare crowd of shape shifting players 'the person" in the cape is "she" once she is on the floor and later "the lady in the cape" so I guess I am ok to say this is one person and that is the one in league with another "she" who because of proximity of reference is Rachel nee Rabinovitch  but still it could be the "silent vertebrate in brown"  that is the other she although the "brown" suggests it is the silent man of the preceding stanza. Nancy has written that this poem relies less on conscious cleverness than the other Sweeney poems but I find this kind of gambit distracting  . Do you think circumscribe is just to surround or is it to delimit and is "golden" a glorious adjective or a more sinister toothy gold capped leer?
>
>
>        Cheers Pete
>
>
>
>
>        On 30/07/2012, at 12:07 PM, Chokh Raj wrote:
>
>
>                There's an anomaly (?) between Sweeney's animal laughter in the opening stanza and his later golden grin. Could someone please explain it? Here's the opening stanza: 
>
>                APENECK SWEENEY spreads his knees 
>                Letting his arms hang down to laugh, 
>                The zebra stripes along his jaw 
>                Swelling to maculate giraffe.
>
>                CR 
>
>
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>          From: P <[log in to unmask]>; 
>          To: <[log in to unmask]>; 
>          Subject: Re: Sweeney's golden grin? 
>          Sent: Mon, Jul 30, 2012 1:27:30 AM 
>
>                Really wonderful poetry!!
>                P.M.x
>
>
>                Chokh Raj <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
>                      She and the lady in the cape           
>                      Are suspect, thought to be in league; 
>                      Therefore the man with heavy eyes 
>                      Declines the gambit, shows fatigue, 
>                       
>                      Leaves the room and reappears 
>                      Outside the window, leaning in,         
>                      Branches of wistaria 
>                      Circumscribe a golden grin;
>
>                      'Sweeney among the Nightingales'
>                      http://www.bartleby.com/199/24.html 
>
>
>                      Incidentally, a picture of Wisteria at 
>                      http://media.photobucket.com/image/wisteria%20vine/marianinia/Flowers-002.jpg?o=3 
>
>
>
>                      CR 
>                     
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