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Hey Nancy,

 

I’m suitably chastened but it wasn’t a generalization. It was just an observation of his experience. It was forty years ago and perhaps there might have been alcohol involved in the conversation. It was nothing to me and nothing to him. In the warm glow of the booze I think we found everyone serious, caring  and admirable.

 

 My experience of academic politics has not been as edifying as yours but then it has been on the scientific side of town where the money is big and the game is more clearly about personal gain.  I grant you this is a complex issue in the sense that without personal gain there is no further funding for those not already well resourced. I won’t start on the more subtle improprieties of ram feeding publications to journals and so on...

 

 I have also lived through my wife blowing the whistle on a bent colleague with the retraction of multiple papers from major journals going back a decade. The fight had to be taken outside the university to a national level – the improper political interference by the university  in layers from the professor up ( the oldest university in this country by the way ) was a piece of work to behold. She survived the process one of her colleagues did not and  now cleans banks at night. 

 

I could go on but the original post was just a giggle and needs to lie down and die now I think  - and as you say such observations don’t give you reliable data.  

 

Cheers Pete

 

 

From: T. S. Eliot Discussion forum. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Nancy Gish
Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2012 12:09 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Why did T.S. Eliot believe in God?

 

Well, not to me. I have taught in four universities, and I have had my fill of university politics. But it is simply not true in my experience that they are different or worse than those of any other institutions. I'm sorry your friend happened to have been in some difficult place. But these generalizations are, like all sweeping generalizations, just stereotypes. I find most of my colleagues serious, caring, and admirable. There is no group that does not engage in political disagreements, even mean versions. But academics are not some isolated and exceptional group of cranks, and at least they often disagree over things that matter beyond their own personal gain. 

 

Nancy

>>> Jerome Walsh 06/06/12 12:57 AM >>>

Makes eminent sense to me!

 

Jerry

 


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From: Peter Dillane <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2012 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: Why did T.S. Eliot believe in God?





Yeah, I had a friend who had been a coalminer in Wales in the fifties and made it to PhD at night and then became an academic. He told me academia was more brutal than the coalminers’ union ever was.

 

Cheers P

 

From: T. S. Eliot Discussion forum. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jerome Walsh
Sent: Wednesday, 6 June 2012 8:42 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Why did T.S. Eliot believe in God?

 

Pete, 

 

If you want to see blood sports you should see what some scholars have said about ideas I've published!  Error! Filename not specified.

 

Jerry

 


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From: Peter Dillane <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2012 5:33 PM
Subject: Re: Why did T.S. Eliot believe in God?

 

Oh dear just when this was about to take off too.  My mother told me that civility costs nothing but she probably did not allow it might truncate blood sport.  If as is sometimes said God sees every joke and laughs it might have been nice to have teased this one a bit longer but I guess you Christians have to do the decent thing.

Pete ( the other one – no academic qualification of consequence)

 

From: T. S. Eliot Discussion forum. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jerome Walsh
Sent: Tuesday, 5 June 2012 11:25 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Why did T.S. Eliot believe in God?

 

Peter,

 

Sorry for the misconstrual.  I was being flippant, too.  Your question reminded me of the plaintive line in Mass, "but does God believe in me.......?," which ends hanging on an unresolved note.  I've always found that line particularly poignant.  I meant no implication of plagiarism, just an acknowledgement of what I think is a worthwhile and thought-provoking way of rephrasing the topic.

 

And the reference to "Father" was simply to be transparent.  I can't remember whether the list knows I'm a RC priest, and I wanted that identity to be clear so that my wisecrack would be taken in the proper context.  I realize now that my phrasing could come across as belligerent, and I apologize for that; it was not intended to be so.

 

Jerry

 


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From: Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2012 1:05 AM
Subject: Re: Why did T.S. Eliot believe in God?

 

Dear Father Walsh,

    Usually when someone tells me I've been listening, or reading or whatever too much,

I get the impression they are usually talking about themselves. In fact I did listen

to Bernsten's piece about 20odd years ago. I don't really remember. I reasure you that I did

come up with the thought all by my little own lonesome. I am capable of doing that from

time to time. In this case, my original response to the question about Eliot/God was

not answered so I thought I would try it the other way around. Obviously the same toying

around continued to apply, so why take the discussion seriously at all? Given the mistakes

in the subsequent probing I can't why one should bother.

     I have a deep reverence for and resonance with scripture, so I tend to have high regard

for scripture scholarship. It is a crucial matter, and an important resource for Eliot studies.

 I must confess to surprise at your approach this time around. I guess my own flippant

conrtribution would be to say, poor old Bernstein. He was a victim of the NY school of nonsense.

 

Peter Montgomery (That's Dr. Montgomery to you.)

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Jerome <mailto:[log in to unmask]>  Walsh 

To: [log in to unmask] 

Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2012 6:29 PM

Subject: Re: Why did T.S. Eliot believe in God?

 

Peter,

 

You've been listening to the Credo in Bernstein's Mass too much!

 

Besides, how do you know that God believes in any of us?

 

Jerry Walsh (Yes, that's "Father Walsh" to you....)

 


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From: Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] 
Sent: Saturday, June 2, 2012 8:11 PM
Subject: Re: Why did T.S. Eliot believe in God?

 

Now that we've settled that question, lets discuss why God believed in T.S. Eliot.

 

Any ideas?

 

P.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: John Grant <mailto:[log in to unmask]>  

To: [log in to unmask] 

Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 7:40 PM

Subject: Re: Why did T.S. Eliot believe in God?

 

Thanks, CR!


Sent from my iPad


On Jun 1, 2012, at 4:53 PM, Chokh Raj <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

A fine elucidation, John, in Barry Spurr's article 

T.S. Eliot's extraordinary journey of faith

at 

http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2011/10/12/2972229.htm 

 

Regards,

  CR

 

 


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From: John Angell Grant <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] 
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: Why did T.S. Eliot believe in God?

 

//Why did Eliot choose Anglicanism over Roman Catholicism?//