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Yep, indeedee, it's usually the case that anyone knowing where the
(metaphorical) bodies are buried is worthy of intensive cultivation.



On 21 July 2011 03:37, Chokh Raj <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>   Sure, Peter. Thanks. - CR
>
> --- On *Wed, 7/20/11, Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]>* wrote:  
>
>  CR, if you are looking for parallels/analogies
> you may wish to examine the parallel of the consciousness(es) through the
> Waste Land with the journey of the Isrealites through the
> desert after they leave Egypt. Goodness knows, you may even find out who's
> corpse is buried in the garden. Then, of course, there is the journey of
> the magi.
>
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Chokh Raj<http:[log in to unmask]>
> *To:* [log in to unmask]<http:[log in to unmask]>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 19, 2011 4:15 PM
> *Subject:* Re: The Hyacinth Passage in TWL (was Re: Henry Adams on
> Silence)
>
>   *just resetting the lines -- making them more convenient to read *
> **
> CR
>
>
> --- On *Tue, 7/19/11, Chokh Raj <[log in to unmask]<http:[log in to unmask]>
> >* wrote:
>
>      *a side-glance*
>
> The Hyacinth girl (cf. La Figlia) provides a sharp contrast to the
> experience of
> an earthly inferno with a dissolute companion in 'A Game of Chess' ("The
> ivory
> men make company between us").
>
> In this section, "Those are pearls that were his eyes" evokes a
> transfiguration
> vis-a-vis a wasteland where "the dead men lost their bones", where death
> does
> not regenerate into something rich and strange ("Of his bones are coral
> made").
>
>  No wonder, the memory of the Hyacinth girl suffuses Eliot's poetry with a
>
> lingering fragrance. In the poet's religious imagination, she undergoes an
> apotheosis, a mythical transfiguration into a redeeming figure of divine
> grace:
>
> "Dry the pool, dry concrete, brown edged,
>  And the pool was filled with water out of sunlight,
>  And the lotos rose, quietly, quietly,
>  The surface glittered out of heart of light"
>
> Cheers,
>  CR
>
>
> --- On *Mon, 7/18/11, Chokh Raj <[log in to unmask]>* wrote:
>
>    "This is the use of memory . . .
>
>  not less of love but expanding / Of love beyond desire . . .
>
>  To become renewed, transfigured, in another pattern".
>
>  -- 'Little Gidding'
>
>
> --- On *Sun, 7/17/11, Chokh Raj <[log in to unmask]>* wrote:
>
>    Goes without saying, too, that these poetic/philosophic reflections
> were
> inspired by the revival of the poet's contact with his "girl" and,
> presumably,
> addressed to her:
>  "Footfalls echo in the memory
>  Down the passage which we did not take
>  Towards the door we never opened
>  Into the rose-garden. My words echo
>  Thus, in your mind."
>
> Cheers,
>  CR
>
>
> --- On *Sun, 7/17/11, Chokh Raj <[log in to unmask]>* wrote:
>
>    Goes without saying that the poet considers "the moment in the
> rose-garden,
> / The moment in the arbour where the rain beat, / The moment in the
> draughty
> church at smokefall" timeless moments.
>
> Cheers,
>  CR
>
>    --- On *Sat, 7/16/11, Chokh Raj <[log in to unmask]>* wrote:
>
>    *And the 'Quartets': "a pattern / Of timeless moments"*
>
> //"I can only say, *there* we have been: but I cannot say where.
>  And I cannot say, how long, for that is to place it in time."//
>
>     "Time past and time future
> Allow but a little consciousness.
> To be conscious is not to be in time
> But only in time can the moment in the rose-garden,
> The moment in the arbour where the rain beat,
> The moment in the draughty church at smokefall
> Be remembered; involved with past and future.
> Only through time time is conquered."
>
>    "Dawn points, and another day
> Prepares for heat and silence. Out at sea the dawn wind
> Wrinkles and slides. I am here
> Or there, or elsewhere. In my beginning."
>
> "The laughter in the garden, echoed ecstasy
>  Not lost, but requiring, pointing to the agony
>  Of death and birth."
>
> "We must be still and still moving
>  Into another intensity
>  For a further union, a deeper communion"
>
> -----
>
> Thanks,
>  CR
>
>
> --- On *Sat, 7/16/11, Chokh Raj <[log in to unmask]>* wrote:
>
>    DYNAMICS OF TRANSFORMATION
>
> *Intimation *
>   a) 'Silence' (1910)
>   b) In the Hyacinth garden: "looking into the heart of light, the silence"
>
>
> *Aspiration *
>   'La Figlia': "Stand on the highest pavement of the stair..."
>   'Ash-Wednesday': "to construct something ['holy and permanent'] / Upon
> which to rejoice"
>
> *Visions of Transformation:  *
> **
> *  In the protagonist   *
>   a) mystic/ascetic: "Lady, three white leopards ...This is the land. We
> have our inheritance."
>   b) stairs of purgatory: "Struggling with the devil of the stairs ..."
>
> *  In the beloved  *
>  "Who walked between the violet and the violet ...
>   Talking of trivial things
>   In ignorance and knowledge of eternal dolour
>   Who moved among the others as they walked,
>   Who then made strong the fountains and made fresh the springs
>   Made cool the dry rock and made firm the sand
>   In blue of larkspur, blue of Mary's colour"
>
> *The vision of the Word*
>
>   "If the lost word is lost, if the spent word is spent
>    If the unheard, unspoken
>    Word is unspoken, unheard;
>    Still is the unspoken word, the Word unheard,
>    The Word without a word, the Word within
>    The world and for the world;
>    And the light shone in darkness and
>    Against the Word the unstilled world still whirled
>    About the centre of the silent Word."
>
> *The actual Ordeal  *
>
>   "In this brief transit where the dreams cross
>    The dreamcrossed twilight between birth and dying ..."
>
>    "The desert in the garden the garden in the desert"
>
> *"Where prayer has been valid"   *
>
>   "Blessed sister, holy mother ...
>    Suffer me not to be separated"
>
> -----
>
> Thanks,
>  CR
>
>
> --- On *Wed, 7/13/11, Chokh Raj <[log in to unmask]>* wrote:
>
>    *"looking into the heart of light"*
>
> Here's a reading that is closest to my heart -- it felt like I was
> rehearsing my deepest thoughts:
>
> *The Waste Land's Mystical Void *
> in
> *T.S. Eliot: mystic, son, and lover *
> *By Donald J. Childs*
>
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=2KngBXT4fx4C&pg=PA107&lpg=PA107&dq#v=onepage&q&f=false
>
>
> Regards,
>  CR
>
>
> --- On *Tue, 7/12/11, Chokh Raj <[log in to unmask]>* wrote:
>
>    ***In my last to last post, please read:
>
> * It is most apropos to view the Hyacinth passage in that light. *
>
> Thanks,
>  CR
>
>
> --- On *Mon, 7/11/11, Chokh Raj <[log in to unmask]>* wrote:
>
>    I'd borrow a line from 'The Journey of the Magi' and contemplate it
> vis-a-vis this transformation:
>
> "this Birth was / Hard and bitter agony for us, like Death, our death."
>
> CR
>
>
> --- On *Mon, 7/11/11, Chokh Raj <[log in to unmask]>* wrote:
>
>    Yes, indeed. A death/life motif informs the myth -- a motif which
> informs Eliot's poetry too
> *// It is most apropos to view the myth in that light. // **
>
> Thanks,
>  CR
>
>
> --- On *Mon, 7/11/11, Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]>* wrote:  
>
>  One dimension that Ekiot would not have ignored is the transformation
> from Dorian to Hellenic culture.
> In effect Apollo replaces(kills) Hyacinth. The hyacinth girl suggests some
> transformation.
>
> P.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Chokh Raj<http:[log in to unmask]>
> *To:* [log in to unmask]<http:[log in to unmask]>
> *Sent:* Friday, July 08, 2011 4:13 PM
> *Subject:* Re: The Hyacinth Passage in TWL (was Re: Henry Adams on
> Silence)
>
>   *
> The 'girl' of Eliot's youth -- the upright Emily of dark, shining hair
>
> *
> "Eliot's imagination", writes Lyndall Gordon, "dwelt again and again on a
> beloved woman's hair, the light on it in 'La Figlia' (1912), wet in *The
> Waste Land *(1922), loosened in *Ash-Wednesday *(1930), sweet brown hair
> blown over the mouth".
>
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=Ndb_HDuycu0C&pg=PA236&lpg=PA236&dq#v=onepage&q&f=false
>
> CR
>
>
> --- On *Fri, 7/8/11, Chokh Raj <[log in to unmask]>* wrote:
>
>    Comparable to
>
> "—Yet when we came back, late, from the Hyacinth garden,
>  *Your arms full, and your hair wet* . . ."
>
> Thanks,
>  CR
>
>
> --- On *Fri, 7/8/11, Chokh Raj <[log in to unmask]>* wrote:
>
>    O, I'm so sorry, I forgot to quote the all-important lines from La
> Figlia:
>
> "She turned away, but with the autumn weather
>  Compelled my imagination many days,
>  Many days and many hours:
>  *Her hair over her arms and her arms full of flowers.
> * And I wonder how they should have been together!"
>
> Emphasis mine.
>
> Thanks,
>  CR
>
>
> --- On *Fri, 7/8/11, Chokh Raj <[log in to unmask]>* wrote:
>
>      Incidentally, it should be illuminating to read the Hyacinth passage
> in the light of 'La Figlia che Piange':
>
> "Stand on the highest pavement of the stair—
>  Lean on a garden urn—
>  Weave, weave *the sunlight* in your hair—
>  Clasp your flowers to you with a pained surprise—
>  Fling them to the ground and turn
>  With a fugitive resentment in your eyes:
>  But weave, weave *the sunlight* in your hair."  [my emphasis]
>
>  http://www.bartleby.com/198/12.html
>
> I had had an occasion to share my reading of it with the list. Here it is,
> again, if you like:
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=uKXwG_4wmSQC&pg=PA44&lpg
> =PA44&dq#v=onepage&q&f=false
>
> Regards,
> CR
>
>
> --- On *Fri, 7/8/11, Chokh Raj <[log in to unmask]>* wrote:
>
>    Yes, I have read it, indeed.
>
> One must, however, IMHO, be careful with Eliot's use of allusions -- it
> abstracts a certain quality from the thing alluded to. In this case the
> hyacinths given to the girl (I have always associated her with Emily Hale)
> are only emblematic of divine love.
>
> Ah, the gift of hyacinths proved prophetic, imparting a divine dimension to
> human love, never to be consummated in earthly terms, remaining for ever
> fresh, a lasting source of inspiration to the poet!
>
> Cheers,
> CR
>
>
> --- On *Fri, 7/8/11, Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]>* wrote:
>
>  Have you looked up the hyacinth myth?
>
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Chokh Raj<http:[log in to unmask]>
> *To:* [log in to unmask]<http:[log in to unmask]>
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 07, 2011 2:59 PM
> *Subject:* Re: OT - Henry Adams on Silence
>
>   The rather quite momentous "silence" in the hyacinth passage that
> reverberates ominously in the line that follows from Wagner, "Od' und leer
> das Meer" (desolate and empty the sea).
> .
> Thanks,
>  CR
>
>
> --- On *Thu, 7/7/11, Chokh Raj <[log in to unmask]<http:[log in to unmask]>
> >* wrote:
>
>    It was to America, then, that Eliot owed his overwhelming sense of the
> silence/void that never left him. It is the subject of the 1910-poem
> titled 'Silence', it's there in 'Aunt Helen' and elsewhere. It would account
> for "the silence" -- "Looking into the heart of light, the silence" -- in
> the hyacinth passage of TWL.
>
> CR
>
>
> --- On *Thu, 7/7/11, Chokh Raj <[log in to unmask]>* wrote:
>
>      Today's quotation at Dictionary.com
>
> In America the silence was more oppressive than the ignorance; but perhaps
> elsewhere the world might still hide some haunt of futilitarian silence
> where content reigned -- although long search had not revealed it -- and so
> the pilgrimage began anew!
>
> -- Henry Adams, *The education of Henry Adams *
> **
> CR
>
>