----- Original Message -----From: [log in to unmask] href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">Carrol CoxSent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 8:02 PMSubject: Re: Allusions, Echoes, Borrowins, etc was OF RELIGIOUS POETS
Eliot is not a damned fool, but in the essay Tom quotes he is certainly acting like one.
Just as a beginning: there is nothing in the collected works of Eliot to justify is use of “we” in the passages quoted. It is that “we” that makes them more than merely false; very close to outright lies. Consider in the light of these lines how much Eliot owed to Pound! Now Pound was definitely not a Christian, and he had some twisted views, but he was also a great poet AND, as an individual, a a person of great generosity: his whole life shows it. Now his Eliot saying that this man can only experience terror and horror.
If we ‘rewrite’ these lines and substitute “I” for “we” we make some progress. I’m not sure they make much sense even with the emendation – but at least they cease to be lies.
From: T. S. Eliot Discussion forum. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tom Colket
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 8:08 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Allusions, Echoes, Borrowins, etc was OF RELIGIOUS POETS
R> what do you think of the
R> line after the one you you just quoted, i.e. "We move, outside of the
R> Christian faith, between the terror of the purely irrational and the
R> horror of the purely rational."
Rick, I really can't make much sense of that line. It sounds like TSE is saying that those without Christian faith are left with only terror (at the irrational things of this life) and horror (at the 'purely rational', whatever that is). If that's what meant to say, then, to me, that statement is simply false. That line baffles me as much as the preceeding line about "waking as to damnation". It presents a view of life that I cannot relate to at all. But I asked the question to try to better understand if perhaps he meant something other than what the lines appear to mean.
-- Tom --
> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 17:07:10 -0500
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Allusions, Echoes, Borrowins, etc was OF RELIGIOUS POETS
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Tom Colket wrote:
> > I am not of Eliot's faith, so I ask this question out of ignorance -- In
> > the essay I cited, is Eliot expressing a commonly-held religious view in
> > this passage?:
> > "We desire and fear both sleep and waking; the day brings relief from
> > the night, and the night brings relief from the day; we go to sleep as
> > to death, and we wake as to damnation."
> Maybe common but I think not prevalent. I have trouble thinking of any
> preacher other than a fundamentalist saying "we go to sleep as to death,
> and we wake as to damnation."
> Tom, you wrote "I am not of Eliot's faith" so what do you think of the
> line after the one you you just quoted, i.e. "We move, outside of the
> Christian faith, between the terror of the purely irrational and the
> horror of the purely rational."
> Rick Parker