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That's another way of doing it.
My point is that people should attempt to stay within the purpose of the
list. That's the understanding when they join. My right to say what I want
doesn't mean it's appropriate to post messages that are off subject.

-----Original Message-----
From: HUNTER Mark [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2010 4:38 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [GLOBAL-L] discussing the wikileaks cables on this list

Lucy, I'm not sure I get your point.  I'm personally not happy to see
politics here, but people do have a right to say what they say, and the rest
of us have a right to ignore them if we choose.  
Yours
Mark Lee Hunter
Adjunct Professor and Senior Research Fellow, INSEAD
Docteur en Sciences de l'Information de l'Université de Paris 2
Portable: (+33) [0]6 27 81 00 87




-----Original Message-----
From: Lucy Komisar [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Fri 03/12/2010 15:25
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [GLOBAL-L] discussing the wikileaks cables on this list
 
I didn't mean that journalists, or our signing the declaration, are not
political. Of course we are. And the declaration is a political action.

 

Plus information on this list about how other countries view the Wikileaks
document leaks is important if it in any way relates to American threats to
charge Assange with crimes.

 

I'm just saying that this list is not the place to discuss the substance of
the files. Of course I am fascinated by what the Americans think of Russia's
kleptocracy, and the so-called "moderate" Arabs' desire to take out Iran.
Also the apparent duplicity of the State Department in supporting the
Honduras coup. And more. 

 

But we can all get that information from the newspapers that were provided
the leaks and from our own searches in Henk's wonderful cablesearch.org. I
don't see anything served by posting and discussing those revelations here.
It's not the list's function and it violates the rights of people who didn't
sign up for such a discussion.

 

Lucy

 

From: Jon Shafer [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 11:48 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [GLOBAL-L] U.S. scramble to charge Wikileaks founder Assange
with espionage

 


Thanks Lucy.....

Sorry for not getting back with you sooner. Had a "family day" development
with an old friend and was pleasantly sidetracked by it. 

I respect and understand what you're saying. In writing this follow-up, it's
been my desire to learn more about world reactions and how world
governments, officials and...especially...citizens of the world see us and
American foreign policy. As for being "political," the very act of a
statement in support of Wikileaks is, in effect, political because it is a
position taken by a group on a matter of public interest. Opinion on public
matters is, by nature, political.

For those of us who cover politics and government to say we are not
political is like Members of Congress accusing each other of "playing
politics"....and of course they already are by the very fact they run for,
and hold political office. But, Lucy, I do agree wholeheartedly with you
there is a line we should not, and cannot, cross. But I don't think I am
crossing that line for wanting to learn of perceptions being formulated
about the United States as a world "super power" in the context of the
emerging revelations about us contained in the Wikileaks material. There is
a need to know and understand here.

Yes, as journalists we tread a carefully defined path premised on the light
of truth to shine upon the right to know. I also understand there is such a
thing as getting "too political" and there are boundaries of professional
common sense surrounding that. They are instinctively ethical as a part of
us. 

What I'm saying is while "we"....I assume journalists....cannot discuss
substance, as you say (although opinion writers and columnists do because
that is their livelihood), it is substance out of all of this that we need
to know and understand the dynamics of how, and why, the United States is
involved, militarily and otherwise, in the activities the government
explains with its own spin, as clearly in contrast shown by Wikileaks data
that tells us our government is not telling us the truth. 

I simply want to know what others think of us which appears to be in
conflict with what our government wants us to believe how we're viewed. 

Lucy, I must tell you...and everyone seeing this...that I'm not here to make
waves with journalistic colleagues. Merely to express myself, help find the
truth....and then trust the truth to make the waves needed to change things,
hopefully for the better.


Hell, tomorrow I could be in a mood to redact everything I said
here....though I doubt it.
<http://mail.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/01.gif> 

With deepest respect and regards,

Jon Shafer
Stockton, CA






--- On Wed, 12/1/10, Lucy Komisar <[log in to unmask]> wrote:


From: Lucy Komisar <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [GLOBAL-L] U.S. scramble to charge Wikileaks founder Assange
with espionage
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Wednesday, December 1, 2010, 11:59 AM

Jon,

 

I think our role as a group of investigative journalists is to defend
Wikileaks and Assange as distributors of important documents that
journalists and the public have a right and need to see.

 

Then it is for any of us as individual journalists to report, analyze and
comment on what any of the documents say. I think from the queries posted
here, that's just what many of the list members plan to do.

 

If we start discussing the substance, we turn into a political list.

 

Lucy

 

From: Jon Shafer [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 6:02 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [GLOBAL-L] U.S. scramble to charge Wikileaks founder Assange with
espionage

 




Dear International Friends and News Colleagues....

As I'm sure you must know by now, U.S. authorities are chomping at the bit
now to come up with the means to accuse Wikileaks founder Julian Assange
with criminal charges of espionage. Here is The Washington Post article on
that which, by the way, was the most emailed story, according to The Post:

1.
<http://link.email.washingtonpost.com/r/RRHKUP/S3UXIZ/ED4SCB/IGDELX/NOCQM/QR
/h> WikiLeaks founder could be charged under Espionage Act
Federal authorities are investigating whether WikiLeaks founder Julian
Assange violated criminal laws in the group's release of government
documents, including possible charges under the Espionage Act, sources
familiar with the inquiry said Monday.

And similarly, The Post's second most emailed story was by columnist Richard
Cohen which interestingly notes: "When, for instance, Bush attempts to
justify the Iraq war by saying the world is a better place without Saddam
Hussein, Assange could reach into his bag of leaked U.S. government cables
and cite Saudi King Abdullah's private observation that the war had given
Iraq to Iran as a
<http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/29/world/middleeast/29iran.html?pagewanted=a
ll> "gift on a golden platter."

1.
<http://link.email.washingtonpost.com/r/RRHKUP/S3UXIZ/ED4SCB/IGDELX/DP1M6/QR
/h> WikiLeaks provides the truth Bush obscured
Wikileaks' latest release shows the unreality of a presidential memoir.

Meanwhile, the World Can't Wait's Deborah Sweet, who as you know supports
Wikileaks, offer her take on the brewing internal and diplomatic dirty
laundry: "What does the leak reveal?  More than just one administration's
practices; more than dirty tricks, individual opinions, "rogue" spies and
diplomats, what I've seen already confirms a pattern, a system, of an
un-checked superpower conducting "business as usual" behind secrecy. Der
Spiegel described it as "a political meltdown for American foreign policy"
that leaves "the trust America's partners have in the country ... badly
shaken."

I'm not sure if the following URL will work. Please advise.
http://us.mc654.mail.yahoo.com/mc/welcome?.gx=1&.tm=1291155540&.


I have read with great interest your exchanges in working to nail down
Wikileaks sources appropriate to your respective countries and Wikileaks
impact of interests to you in specified areas affected by this whole affair.

I would ask Lucy, or any of you who signed off on our joint statement of
support for Wikileaks, and in the wake of a Pentagon witch-hunt to
criminalize Mr. Assange which, to me, is to criminalize the truth of how
U.S. foreign policy is conducted, it would seem, under a much larger
umbrella of U.S. military expansionism. One might understand some need for
"national security" on matters of immediate threat to a nation's peaceful
existence and right protection from aggressive and/or use of force against
it. 

Here, it seems however, we have American foreign policy used and manipulated
something quite beyond preservation of "democracy" and, instead, expansion
of American empire and using "national security" as a pretext to hide the
truth of its foreign adventurism, occupation and war in countries....for
what purpose or purposes? 

From my perspective, with not a great deal of knowledge about international
relations but with a deep desire to learn, I would hope, with everyone's
input, to learn what countries, governments and how the good minds of many
other countries see what is happening, the opinions being expressed and
reactions to the current emerging state of affairs surrounding the worldwide
impact of the Wikileaks affair.

It seems there is much for us all to talk about, share and express as seen,
respectively, by everyone. I'm quite sure I am overlooking something that I
may have wanted to mention here, but let me go ahead and send this and await
replies to this, if any.

With kind regards to everyone,

Jon Shafer
Stockton, CA USA

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