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In deed it has a reason for being in the poem,
but why should that reason be "meaning"?

Peter
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "DIana Manister" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: Mr. Eugenides


> Dear Carrol,
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean by point-making but I used the phrase to  
> indicate that the typist passage in the poem has meaning. Otherwise  
> why would Eliot, Pound and Vivienne have
> agreed to keep it in the poem?
> 
> Because it has a raison d'etre in the poem does not mean it is easily  
> translatable into a prose sentence, that it lacks subtext, nuance,  
> connotations, music, etc.
> 
> Secondly, if the typist and the young man have an ongoing relationship  
> she would have to be suffering masochism to a seriously pathological  
> degree to be willing to subject herself to repeated rapes. Eliot does  
> not portray her as a mad woman but rather as a dull one.
> 
> Diana
> Sent from my iPod
> 
> On May 12, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Carrol Cox <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> > Diana Manister wrote:
> >>
> >> Dear Nancy,
> >>
> >> The typist and young man seem to be portrayed as in an ongoing
> >> relationship. Eliot it seems to me is condemning the perfunctory
> >> nature of their sexual relation. She regards it as obligatory. She  
> >> has
> >> no dream of love. By creating these specific characters to make his
> >> point Eliot indicates that he sees lower class people as animalistic.
> >
> > Perhaps Eliot regarded the lower classes as animalistic, but this
> > episode certainly isn't evidence. It is precisely what some would call
> > "animalistic sexual passion" which is lacking from the pair. Their
> > problem then would be that they are not animalistic enough.
> >
> > That is absurd, but so is your suggestion. Keep animalistic out of it
> > one way or the other.
> >
> > Also, this construal does not contradict Nancy's suggestion that the
> > young man commits Date Rape.
> >
> > And finally, it seems odd to speak of Eliot "making a point" here.
> > Point-making seems precisely what is carefully kept out of the poem.
> >
> > Carrol
> >