I think one may claim to have felt such a moment or that many believe them.  To say "there are, indeed, timeless moments" is beyond what anyone can state as a fact rather than a belief or a faith in the meaning of a particular experience.  It is not a factual statement.
Nancy

>>> Chokh Raj <[log in to unmask]> 4/15/2010 2:09 PM >>>
Yes, Diana, there are, indeed, timeless moments -- lived and experienced -- at the intersection of time & eternity -- and so both in time and out of time -- such being, as the poet enumerates, the moment in the rose-garden,  the moment in the arbour where the rain beat, the moment in the draughty church at smokefall -- which are subsequently remembered "in time":
 
"I can only say, there we have been: but I cannot say where.
 And I cannot say, how long, for that is to place it in time."
 
"But only in time can the moment in the rose-garden,
 The moment in the arbour where the rain beat,
 The moment in the draughty church at smokefall
 Be remembered;"
 
Cheers,
 CR


--- On Thu, 4/15/10, Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Eliot describes them as "hints and guesses."  Mystics would claim to "live" them, but I don't think Eliot ever makes that claim.  Also, since he says they are outside of time, they cannot be lived in time--only hinted at or guessed at.  The goal of the mystic is to experience while still on earth what is only known to others in the afterlife.  I don't claim to validate any of this; it is a "mystery" but fascinating.
Nancy

>>> Diana Manister 04/15/10 12:18 PM >>>
Dear Nancy,

//If the still point is momentarily sensed, then it's briefly lived, isn't it? As distinct from being thought.//

Cheers,

Diana

Sent from my iPod

On Apr 15, 2010, at 11:19 AM, Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]" target=_blank rel=nofollow>[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Then I think there is not for Yeats or Eliot.  The separate entities remain; it is perception Yeats questions and Eliot's still point is outside time, only momentarily sensed but not lived.
Nancy

>>> Chokh Raj 04/15/10 11:13 AM >>>
resolution -- if there was one
 
                           "O Presences
That passion, piety or affection knows,
And that all heavenly glory symbolise -
O self-born mockers of man's enterprise" --
 
"Labour is blossoming or dancing where
The body is not bruised to pleasure soul.
Nor beauty born out of its own despair,
Nor blear-eyed wisdom out of midnight oil.
O chestnut-tree, great-rooted blossomer,
Are you the leaf, the blossom or the bole?
O body swayed to music, O brightening glance,
How can we know the dancer from the dance?"
 
 - WB Yeats, 'Among School Children'
 
"Neither flesh nor fleshless" --
"at the still point, there the dance is" --
"you are the music / While the music lasts".
 
 - TS Eliot, 'Four Quartets'
 
Cheers,
 CR