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Dear Nancy,

The opening of Baudelaire's poem comprises an uncanny image of spirits  
walking in broad daylight:

  THE SEVEN OLD MEN
O SWARMING city, city full of dreams,
Where in a full day the spectre walks and speaks;

Diana

Sent from my iPod

On Mar 16, 2010, at 11:04 AM, Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Dear Diana,
>
> The poem Eliot alludes to is about an old man replicating himself  
> into 7 old men; it is about multiplicity, not someone who was  
> thought dead.  Eliot was, I think, much more interested then in  
> Janet than Freud, who only became dominant in psychology around  
> 1920.  In any case, he wanted a therapist for himself who was not  
> Freudian.  There's a letter when he decided to go to Vittoz, and he  
> uses terms that suggest Janet.  I'd have to find it.  But I do not  
> think Freud helps explain Eliot as much as other theories then  
> current--at least Eliot's own notions of himself then.
> Nancy
>
>
> >>> Diana Manister <[log in to unmask]> 03/16/10 10:30 AM >>>
> Dear Nancy,
>
> The mood produced by the Dante and Baudelaire allusions together is
> that of the uncanny. Not only Dante's dead who are animated and speak,
> but the dream-spectres of Baudelaire combine qualities of both the
> living and dead.
>
> Freud saw the uncanny in literature as an expression of repressed
> material entering awareness, something alive that was thought to be
> dead.
>
> Celan's poetry often comprises this mood in relation to Holocaust
> victims who are somehow still alive.
>
> Diana
>
> Sent from my iPod
>
> On Mar 16, 2010, at 9:27 AM, Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > I do not think one can say these people are specifically defined by
> > any single allusion. The allusions evoke moods and situations and
> > implications; they do not identify in particular ways. "Unreal
> > city," for example, is from Baudelaire's "Les Sept Viellards,"
> > though the dead may evoke Dante's also. According to Southam, "In
> > 1950 Eliot declared that these two lines [from Baudelaire] summed up
> > Baudelaire's 'significance' for him: 'I knew what that meant,
> > because I had lived it before I knew that I wanted to turn it into
> > verse on my own account.'" The lines are these: "Fourmillante Cité,
> > cité pleine de rêves,/Où le spectre en plein jour raccroche le
> > passant" ("Crowded city, city full of dreams,/Where in broad dayligh
> > t the spectr stops the passerby").
> > Cheers,
> > Nancy
> >
> > >>> DIana Manister <[log in to unmask]> 03/16/10 8:50 AM >>>
> > Dear Rick,
> >
> > This lines are spoken by Ugolino in Canto xxxiii, cited by Eliot in
> > TWL notes: "When I hear the door of the horrible tower locking." The
> > locking signals that no food will be brought to Ugolino and the  
> boys,
> > who are starved to death.
> >
> > Not a happy way for Eliot to describe his work on London!  
> Technically
> > though, Virgil and Dante have not yet entered the first circle. They
> > are at the gates. But as I think Carrol noted, souls there never get
> > out.
> >
> > The Dante allusion in Burial of the Dead then would seem to compare
> > London Bridge to the gates of hell, although it employs another  
> quote
> > from the Vestibule canto.
> >
> > Who are those crossing the bridge? Residents of this area in the
> > Inferno are the uncommited, who think only of themselves. That would
> > not be the war dead.
> >
> > Diana
> >
> > Sent from my iPod
> >
> > On Mar 15, 2010, at 8:25 PM, "Rickard A. Parker"
> > <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > >> Since Eliot refers to those crossing London Bridge with the Dante
> > >> quote
> > >> about death having undone so many, do you think the implication  
> is
> > >> that
> > >> London is a contemporaneous version of hell? The speaker's  
> subject
> > >> position is the same as Dante's after he and Virgil pass under  
> the
> > >> gateway
> > >> to hell, as you note.
> > >
> > > Here is the ending of T.S. Eliot's "London Letter" dated May, 1921
> > > and published in The Dial magazine June, 1921. Note how he uses
> > Dante
> > > to comment on his work in the city.
> > >
> > > As the prosperity of London has increased, the City Churches have
> > > fallen
> > > into desuetude; for their destruction the lack of congregation is
> > the
> > > ecclesiastical excuse and the need of money the ecclesiastical
> > reason.
> > > The fact that the erection of these churches was apparently paid  
> for
> > > out
> > > of a public coal tax and their decoration probably by the
> > > parishioners,
> > > does not seem to invalidate the right of the True Church to bring
> > them
> > > to the ground. To one who, like the present writer, passes his
> > days in
> > > this City of London (quand'io sentii chiavar l'uscio di sotto) the
> > > loss
> > > of these towers, to meet the eye down a grimy lane, and of these
> > empty
> > > naves, to receive the solitary visitor at noon from the dust and
> > > tumult
> > > of Lombard Street, will be irreparable and unforgotten. A small
> > > pamphlet
> > > issued for the London County Council (Proposed Demolition of
> > Nineteen
> > > City Churches: P. S. King & Son, Ltd., 2-4 Gt. Smith Street,
> > > Westminster, S.W.1, 3s.6d. net) should be enough to persuade of
> > what I
> > > have said.
> > >
> > > http://world.std.com/~raparker/exploring/tseliot/works/london-letters/london-letter-1921-06.html#churches
> > >