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If you want to waste your time free associating to Eliot's poetry,  
knock yourself out. But don't clutter the list with analogies that  
have meaning for you alone.

Diana

Sent from my iPod

On Feb 6, 2010, at 2:39 AM, Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]>  
wrote:

> Not necressarily, external elements can be applied by analogy. text  
> is not
> isolated from life.
> P.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Diana Manister
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Friday, February 05, 2010 6:56 AM
> Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: Prufrock question
>
> A literary hypothesis is worthless unless it derives from text.
>
> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 13:49:16 -0800
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: Prufrock question
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Critics seem to use it all the time.
> I think it's called an hypothesis.
> P.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Diana Manister
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 6:52 AM
> Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: Prufrock question
>
> It is also quite possible that something else prompted him to change  
> the epigraph.
>
> Do you think free association is a valid critical approach?
>
> Diana
>
> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 04:33:04 -0800
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: Prufrock question
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Given that Eliot was reading Dante ALL THE TIME in those
> days, it is quite possible that he was influenced by the
> di Montefeltro passage and only realised it      later,
> which is what prompted him to change the      epigraph.
>
> P.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Chokh Raj
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 9:49 AM
> Subject: Re: {Disarmed} Re: Prufrock question
>
> Thanks, Nancy. I'm sorry.
>
> The question essentially centers around what actually spurs a poet  
> into activity --  irrespective of whether one is aware  
> of              something before or not. As for Dante's Divine  
> Comedy, especially Inferno, it is germane to both the matter and the  
> manner of 'Prufrock'. Significantly, The Divine Comedy is a most  
> dramatic poem.
>
> Regards,
>  CR
>
> --- On Wed, 2/3/10, Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Do you think it courteous to thank Ken for being discourteous to me?  
> I think that an odd idea of politeness.  //And this still does not  
> address the whole issue of why it would take a specific instance in  
> all of the Divine Comedy (Dante encounters persons throughout) to  
> suggest to Eliot a common poetic technique.//
>
> These parallel monologues serve no purpose.  Unless you answer a  
> direct question about facts, it is not a discussion. Have you any  
> evidence whatever--historic, linguistic, biographical, critical--to  
> speculate that in a single epigraph Eliot found so common an idea  
> and was apparently not aware of it before?
> Nancy
>
>
>
> >>> Chokh Raj 02/03/10 11:07 AM >>>
> Thanks, Ken. As for chronology, Eliot could always go back to the  
> lines (in Dante) that might have inspired him in the first place and  
> choose to make them into an epigraph subsequently.
>
> Regards,
>  CR
>
>
> --- On Wed, 2/3/10, Ken Armstrong  
> <[log in to unmask]>                      wrote:
>
> Nancy Gish wrote:
> > Why do you ignore the fact that the word does not mean "persona"  
> in Italian
>     CR says explicitly "*a person who could/would/might..."    etc.  
> Do you see it? "Persona" he uses in reference to Prufrock. Can we  
> not say Prufrock is a persona? "One can visualize," not
> "one can confirm that"...it is as legitimate a way of grasping (at)  
> Eliot's poetry as any.
>
> Ken A
> *
> > and that Eliot did not use that epigraph when he first wrote the  
> poem?  It was not, chronologically, a starting point: the poem was  
> written with a different epigraph. So it is not clear what point you  
> are making.
> > Nancy
> > >>> Chokh Raj 02/02/10 10:00 PM >>>
> > Words that struck a chord in Eliot  One can visualize Eliot  
> reflect on Montefeltro's words and make them into a starting point  
> for a confessional monologue of * (conversely) never return to the  
> world* -- a persona that lives out this philosophy of indifference  
> to "the world" not just in 'Prufrock' but in the rest of Eliot's  
> poetry.
> >  CR
> >
> > --- On *Mon, 2/1/10, Chokh Raj /<MailScanner has detected a  
> possible fraud attempt from "us.mc450..mail.yahoo.com" claiming to  
> be [log in to unmask]>/* wrote:
> >
> >     Peter, going by Eliot's habits of mind (ref. Southam), the
> >     epigraph may have provided him with a clue, the
> >     all-important starting point, for conceiving this dramatic
> >     monologue as a disguised mode of confession [a la Montefeltro in
> >     Inferno] -- putting on the persona of a middle aged man. Apart
> >     from what "persona" denotes in the epigraph, it could
> >     easily suggest to Eliot the technique of "persona" as a masque
> >     for a character other than the poet himself.
> >          Thanks & regards,
> >          CR
> >
> >
> >     --- On *Mon, 2/1/10, Peter Montgomery /<MailScanner has  
> detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.mc450.mail.yahoo.com"  
> claiming to be venture_v@TELUS....NET>/*
> >     wrote:
> >
> >         Let us not over look Dante's use of the word PERSONA in
> >         Eliot's epigraph
> >         of the poem.
> >                  P.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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