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ps

seem to remember that Pat makes the point that Bleistein is merely and
rather misleadingly a Jewish-SOUNDING name; in reality, not a common one at
all, even as a German/Jewish surname, unlike such as Goldstein etc.




On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 9:54 AM, David Boyd <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Have now had a rather more thorough look at Pat's book - a whole chapter
> (10) is devoted to 'The Names'
>
> Odds-on favourite for adoption of Bleistein seems to be the city of London
> fur dealer (NOT furrier)  of that name, whose premises TSE must have
> encountered around Cannon St etc, which was a centre for fur auctions (as
> was the entire city of London for all manner of commodity trading - eg., so
> we come around to the currant merchant, etc).
>
> No doubt there were links back here to activities of the Hudson Bay
> Company, etc.
>
> Pat tracked down the various successors to the firm; it seems the orginal
> owners Anglicised their name early in the century to Blyth, This was very
> common, especially around World War 1, from the English Royal Family
> downwards through the social spectrum. John Betjeman, whom TSE fleetingly
> taught English as a N London schoolboy, was born John Betjemann.
>
> It is also mentioned that Theodore Roosevely owned a racehorse called
> Bleistein, and the c. 1906 breach of copyright court case involving a
> Bleistein is also outlined.
>
> There is much general discussion about 'Jewish / Germanic'-sounding names
> like Bleistein in general, and eg., their frequency in both German and US
> telephone directories, but no mention in this or any other context of
> Stetson, although interestingly (purely coincidentally?) Bleistein is linked
> with US ex-Danish settler surnames.
>
>   On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:40 PM, Richard Seddon <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Ken
>>
>> I can
>>
>> The case is discussed on page 226 of Pat's book
>>
>> George Bleistein sued to protect his copyright on some circus posters.
>>  Pat
>> noted that Justice Holmes used a book that Eliot had in his library
>> "Elements of Drawing".
>>
>> I think the central point that Pat was making was that Bleistein is not a
>> very Jewish name.  For example, there are no Bleistein's in the 1999 New
>> York telephone directory.
>>
>> Rick Seddon
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: T. S. Eliot Discussion forum. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Ken Armstrong
>> Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 2:57 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>  Subject: Re: Mr. Bleistein at the Cannon Street Grill
>>
>> David,
>>
>>  I don't have Pat's book and am a little fuzzy on this, but I believe
>> that she mentions another possible source from the USA, regarding a
>> court case of forgery or copyright questions, or along those lines.Can
>> you confirm that?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ken
>>
>>
>> David Boyd wrote:
>> > Have now quickly checked this, and Pat does mention Bleistein as the
>> > name of nearby extant City of London fur dealers, who were / are a
>> > traditionally Jewish commercial sector in London, as is 'the rag
>> > (clothing and dress manufacture) trade' in general.
>> >
>> > Recall myself having some offline email chats with Pat whilst she was
>> > researching her book, about the name Bleistein and, particularly, the
>> > literal, German meaning of the name, which is 'leadstone' (with
>> > possible allusions to metallic ores, cf
>> > Goldstein/Silberstein/Eisenstein etc.0
>> > This is more fully mentioned
>> > herehttp://stevencscheer.com/patriciasloane.htm
>> > <http://stevencscheer.com/patriciasloane.htm>
>> >
>> > http://stevencscheer.com/patriciasloane.htm
>> >
>> > This line of discussion with Pat also led I recall to one about hard
>> > rock mining in general, which differs very much in technique from the
>> > mining of coal, eg., tin mining in Cornwall; graphite mining in
>> > Cumberland from c. 1500/1600, along with iron ore (haematite) mining
>> > which burgeoned there from c. 1870s.
>> >
>> > I have never seen anywhere else any reference to 'Stetson' extending
>> > beyond Rickard's admirably thorough notes on his website.
>> >
>> > Similarly to 'Bleistein' , apart from the usual slouchbrimming
>> > headwear, the literal meaning of 'Stetson' is, in Danish, 'stepson' or
>> > possibly a shortening of son of Stephen / Stephenson, or juxtaposing
>> > 'Stet', if I recall schoolboy Latin from the verb 'to stand (firm)'
>> > which declines something like  'sto stare steti statum' which is not
>> > getting far away from a more universal allusion such as anyone's
>> > fighting son.
>> >
>> > Whilst Stephenson is a fairly common surname in England, Stetson
>> > isn't, and no doubt was more common across the pond from those of
>> > Danish extraction.
>> >
>> > regards
>> >
>> > David
>> >
>>
>
>