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My bird is a confirmed young male Ruby-throat. The bird was very cooperative in letting me get photos from 12 feet away with the door open! I sent some of my photos to Lanny Chambers just to be certain. He wrote: Immature male Ruby-throated. The 10th primary is definitely not a Black-chinned shape, and the tail does extend past the folded wingtips. - Lanny As Charlene said, it's very helpful to get good photos. Now, I'm ready for the Black-chinned!!! Margy Terpstra Kirkwood, St. Louis CO, MO [log in to unmask] ------------------------------------------------------------ The Audubon Society of Missouri's Wild Bird Discussion Forum ASM Fall Meeting: September 25-27 at Lake of the Ozarks State Park http://mobirds.org/Meetings/fallmtg09.asp