Of course I was not referring to the lysol episode.

I was referring to  the missionary stew line,

which certainly  seems like a tease to me.


Sweeney is not responsible for killing the woman and leaving

her in the bath with a gallon of lysol. He is simply recounting that episode.

It would be a bad misreading to attribute to Sweeney the characteristics of

the person who committed that attrocity.



On Jul 18, 2009, Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Some things are too offensive to pass over.  The idea that Sweeney is "playful" about a man killing a woman and leaving her in a gallon of lysol, then waiting in horror for the police is more than offensive; it is disgusting.  And it makes the drama stupid.  This is about horror.  And I really can't imagine Jesus joking about murder and inner terror.  I also, fortunately, cannot really imagine a mind that would find it "playful."
>>> Peter Montgomery 07/18/09 4:15 AM >>>

Somewhere in the dark and distant past, there was an article on

Sweeney's celtic ancestor, Suibhne in the University of Toronto Quarterly.

As I  recall, Suibhne was some kind of minor celtic god or something.


Actually, I think you are onto something Tom.

S. may compare to Eliot but he also compares to Jesus Christ,

who, as a carpenter and  cavourter with fishermen, tax collectors

and prostitutes was also a vulgar person. Also consider how

little evidence there is that he could read, and virtually none that he could write.

He also, at his mother's prompting, used his special powers

to aid wedding celebrations.  Then there's that  tirade in the temple.


He faced a supreme gathering of hoohas in the garden of Gethsemane,

and was eventually executed for that most vulgar of social gaffs, blasphemey.

Don't think he felt like killing a woman, but then Sweeney doesn't

exactlly demo. that except in a playful way.  He did happen to know someone

like that, as I am sure, did  Jesus.


Just a rough sketch.


On Jul 16, 2009, Rickard A. Parker <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Nice point about David's comment on Sweeney. I don't think that means
> Sweeney is speaking as a source of religious wisdom
> --as, for example, Harcourt-Reilly presumably is. Sinful drunks can
> develop insight, and wisdom is not limited to the ideas of a church. But
> Sweeney remains both vulgar and ominous in these texts, and if Eliot
> identified with him (as no doubt he did), I think it was with his own
> guilt about Vivienne and a long series of such suggestions of wanting to
> kill a woman. Read "The Love Song of St. Sebastion" (1914) for an early
> and extremely ugly version of that. Eliot's fascination with murder is a
> frequent note in both his work and comments on his life.

"Nocturne" by T.S. Eliot (1909)

Romeo, grand sérieux, to importune
Guitar and hat in hand, beside the gate
With Juliet, in the usual debate
Of love, beneath a bored but courteous moon;
The conversation failing, strikes some tune
Banal, and out of pity for their fate
Behind the wall I have some servant wait,
Stab, and the lady sinks into a swoon.

Blood looks effective on the moonlit ground--
The hero smiles; in my best mode oblique
Rolls toward the moon a frenzied eye profound,
(No need of "Love forever?"--"Love next week?")
While female readers all in tears are drowned:--
"The perfect climax all true lovers seek!"