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D> Tom, if you check the archives you will see that Christopher's remarks onD> the translations were posted in the TSE list.D>D> Did you check that before alleging some secret re-posting on my part?Perhaps I did not receive all the email from the TSE listserver. The remarks Christopher made about Professor Ingelbien were not in any of the emails I received from the TSE server. I saw them for the first time when I read through the link pointing to the other list.I do not know how to access the TSE archives. I'd be grateful if you could tell me how to do that.-- Tom --

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 21:23:48 +0000From: [log in to unmask]: Re: Off topic: Reposting TSE postsTo: [log in to unmask]

Scott, it could be that only the poetry forums are invisible. I'll check that. Thanks for the info. Tom, if you check the archives you will see that Christopher's remarks on the translations were posted in the TSE list. Did you check that before alleging some secret re-posting on my part?  Diana

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 13:23:22 -0500From: [log in to unmask]: Re: Off topic: Reposting TSE postsTo: [log in to unmask]
Diana wrote:
If the forum is not invisible to search engines, I'd like to know. I've tested it myself and found it to be invisible. 
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I was looking for that Dans translation that Pound wrote, and the only word I could remember from it was "cannimaculated". Do a Google seach on that word and you'll get a link to the "invisible" poetry site.
 
Google sees even more than Tiresias at the violet hour. . .
On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 11:57 AM, Diana Manister <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

I did tell the TSE list that I was posting some of the list's comments on that translation in a poetry forum, and I did post Christopher's comments on the TSE list. As I recall, at least one TSE list member commented on Christopher's remarks. Had that thread flourished in the poetry forum I would have continued cross-postings, but it went dead very quickly. In future I will refrain from re-posting comments from the TSE list elsewhere.  The forum to which you refer is private. I am assured that it is invisible to google and other search engines. This is necessary because many poetry journals consider poems that are workshopped online to be "previously published," so poets are often unwilling to post their poems for peer review if they intend to submit them for publication anywhere but in a forum that can't be found by searches. If the forum is not invisible to search engines, I'd like to know. I've tested it myself and found it to be invisible. Diana


Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:28:09 -0500From: [log in to unmask]: Re: Off topic: Reposting TSE posts


To: [log in to unmask]
I looked though the link supplied by Scot. Diana reposted quite a few TSE posts, which then generated discussion on her list, some of it quite critical of the original poster. But by having the posts on a second list, the original poster did not get a chance to defend themselves. For example, the translation of "Dans le Restaurant" by Professor Ingelbein is ridiculed on Diana's list:==========================10/18/2008:Just get rid of that awful Inglebein translation. Get the comma in where it belongs, "il est venu, nous peloter, un gros chien"--like that. "Le fait est dur. Il est venu."There's no bestiality here, only human sexuality for which we human changelings, neither one thing nor the other, not even properly incarnate, if at all, turn to the companionable animal world for metaphors.Please pass that on to your group. Please tell them there was no literal dog getting his thing off on these children!That's important--it's such a travesty. Get rid of Inglebein once and for all.Please!Christopher==========================If Christopher had posted this on the TSE list, at least Professor Inglebien (or one of the rest of us) could have defended the translation instead of just letting the ridicule stand. That's very unfair to Professor Inglebien.-- Tom --

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 00:15:22 -0500From: [log in to unmask]: Off topic: Reposting TSE postsTo: [log in to unmask] like TSE list member Diana Manister has been reposting TSE posts and adding comments like "I was waiting for a response from that list, but they as usual have gone off on a tangent. . . "  For more Diana posts (and reposts), follow this link: http://poetryinc.net/index.php?topic=319.0  From Diana's 10/11/2008 post:Dear C, a thousand pardons for hurting your feelings. I did post your translation of those lines to the TSE listsrv, giving you credit of course. I did think your translation stressed the sex act more than other translations; this is appropriate to Eliot, because he always writes about sex as vulgar and tawdry. I think your translation is excellent.  I was waiting for a response from that list, but they as usual have gone off on a tangent about why the Phlebas section was appended to "Dans Le Restaurant," and how it relates to Phlebas in The Waste Land.   From Diana's 10/19/2008 post:. . . the discussion got heated. The French connotations for "peloter" were hurled around in rages on the list, with several members insisting that Eliot saw sex as animalistic, and citing other poems and writings of his to substantiate that claim.

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