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Of course, concerning some of these men, it's far more soothing to the  ego 
to say that women shouldn't have sexual feelings or those feelings are  
irrelevant rather than being put in a position of having to satisfy such  feelings.  
In Eliot's case, he was as a young person shy with  women. As to what Vivian 
said to him of his bedroom abilities, we can only  imagine.  How this affected 
him . . . .
 
 
In a message dated 1/29/2009 1:15:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[log in to unmask] writes:

>  Nancy Gish wrote:
> 
> Well, he is quite certain that he does  know.  That is what is so
> infuriating.  Eliot, on the other  hand, seems never to be concerned
> about it.  "Ode" is an ode to  total sexual narcissism; the narrator
> seems utterly unaware that  another person might have feelings about
> such an awful  experience.


I'm unfamiliare with "Ode," and Google failed to help  with it.  (I was
also unfamiliar with "Figs," but Google came through  on it. Does anyone
have an electronic copy of it they could send me. I'm  particularly
interested just now in "infuriating" poems. "Figs" is  infuriating
enough, but its writing seems slack to me, and I want  well-written
outrages.

Note, assuming "ode" well written (or that I  am wrong on "Figs"), There
must be 10s of thousands of pages of trash  expressing "utter
unawareness" of others, and surely we meet up with such  unawareness in
daily life. Couldn't one argue that in fact one of the  central functions
of literature is to make visible the outrageous! The  attitudes Lawrence
expresses are not his alone; they probably are  widespread enough to be
an element in the ideological support for continued  male supremacy. A
poem does not itself need to "know" or "express" the  truth, if by
considering the poem a reader may find truth for  him/herself.

Poets, as Plato claimed, may all be liars -- but readers  may
nevertheless gain truth from the lies, be those lies powerfully  enough
expressed.

Carrol

Carrol


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