Print

Print


Ah!!!! The ancient mariner rides again! cf the reference to Coleridge at the
end of UPUC. Could it be that the cheese skippers have decomposed the corpus
to a point of completion?

P.


Quoting Tom Colket <[log in to unmask]>:

> 
> CR wrote, quoting Craig Raine, 
>  
> -----------------------------------
> "The poet articulates the inexpressible -- and makes the culture more
> articulate and, therefore, more sensible to subtle feeling . . . Every artist
> starts with his emotions and his autobiography -- and addresses the task of
> transcending mere subjectivity.  Self-expression isn't the sole aim. The aim
> is to create an intelligible work of art."
> -----------------------------------
>  
> Sometimes the "aim of the poet", at least initially, may be much more
> personal than Raine is admitting. Consider this quote from TSE in his 1953
> essay, "The Three Voices of Poetry" - p98-99:
>  
> -----------------------------------
> "In a poem which is neither didactic nor narrative, and not animated by any
> other social purpose, the poet may be concerned solely with expressing in
> verse - using all his resources of words, with their history, their
> connotations, their music - this obscure impulse. He does not know what he
> has to say until he has said it; and in the effort to say it he is not
> concerned with making other people understand anything. He is not concerned,
> at this stage, with other people at all: only with finding the right words
> or, anyhow, the least wrong words. He is not concerned whether anybody else
> will ever listen to them or not, or whether anybody else will ever understand
> them if he does. He is oppressed by a burden which he must bring to birth in
> order to obtain relief. Or, to change the figure of speech, he is haunted by
> a demon, a demon against which he feels powerless, because in its first
> manifestation it has no face, no name, nothing; and the words, the poem he
> makes, are a kind of form of exorcism of this demon. In other words again, he
> is going to all that trouble, not in order to communicate with anyone, but to
> gain relief from acute discomfort; and when the words are finally arranged in
> the right way - or in what he comes to accept as the best arrangement he can
> find - he may experience a moment of exhaustion, of appeasement, of
> absolution, and of something very near annihilation, which is in itself
> indescribable. And then he can say to the poem: 'Go away! Find a place for
> your self in a book - and don't expect me to take any further interest in
> you.' "
> -----------------------------------
>  
> -- Tom --
>  
> 
> Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 18:00:58 -0800From: [log in to unmask]: Re: The
> patterns in TSE's carpetTo: [log in to unmask]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "[T]he poet is occupied with frontiers of consciousness beyond which words
> fail,
>  though meanings still exist."
>  
> 'The Music of Poetry' (1942)
>  
> -----
>  
> In 'The Social Function of Poetry' (1945)... 
>  Eliot revisits the site of this second 'psychological' objective
> correlative.
>  Listing various functions of poetry, Eliot mentions 
> 'the expression of something we have experienced but have no words for, 
> which enlarges our consciousness or refines our sensibility'. 
> This is the core of his argument in this essay --
>  that, without expression, our emotions will atrophy. 
> The poet's role is to find objective expression for the purely subjective. 
> The poet articulates the inexpressible -- and makes the culture more
> articulate
>  and, therefore, more sensible to subtle feeling. 
> This is quite different from the idea of the objective correlative as
> restricted to drama.
>  
>      Put like this,
>  the objective correlative looks more intelligible 
> -- a refinement of the idea of impersonality in art.
>  Every artist starts with his emotions and his autobiography 
> -- and addresses the task of transcending mere subjectivity. 
> Self-expression isn't the sole aim. The aim is to create an intelligible work
> of art. 
> The two functions of the objective correlative 
> -- to make emotion manifest for a theatre audience;
>  to articulate one's inexplicable feelings -- 
> are conjoined a little uncomfortably, like unidentical Siamese twins.
>  
> Craig Raine, T.S. ELIOT, pp. 134-135
>  
> -----
>  
> quite a lucid exposition
>  
> CR
> --- On Mon, 12/29/08, Chokh Raj <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> From: Chokh Raj <[log in to unmask]>Subject: Re: The patterns in TSE's
> carpetTo: [log in to unmask]: Monday, December 29, 2008, 3:26 PM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> objective correlative
>  
> "But it is easy to see why this particular coinage is successful. 
> Its scientism -- with its misleading scientific connotation of
> "formula" -- is a rebuke to belle lettrism. Yet, the idea is obvious."
>  
> "The objective correlative...is an account of the artist straining
> to objectify and embody his subjective inner murk -- his buried life."
>  
> It's worthwhile perusing pp.133-136 of T.S. ELIOT by Craig Raine 
> (p.133 para beginning "As for repetition...") online at
>  
> http://books.google.com/books?id=CnnX6jlFUfEC&pg=PA133&lpg=PA133&dq
>  
> CR
> --- On Sun, 12/28/08, Carrol Cox <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> From: Carrol Cox <[log in to unmask]>Subject: Re: The patterns in TSE's
> carpetTo: [log in to unmask]: Sunday, December 28, 2008, 9:08 PMTom
> Colket quotes: "...apart from a few notorious phrases which have had
> a truly embarrassing success in the world"
> 
> Indeed Eliot had every reason to be embarassed about almost all of those
> phrses. I imagine the damage they did is slowly dying out (having for
> the most part been confined to my 'generation" and the preceding ones,
> with only a scattering of younger critics poisoned. Probably the worst
> (and perhaps most notorious) was the objective correlative, the bizarre
> idea that any delection of objects or events could mechanically evoke a
> specific emotion. At some point in his early life Eliot must have been
> tainted without being quite conscious of the fact with the vulgarities
> of late 19th-century positivism! Just the facts, Maam! Just the formula
> for the emotion.
> 
> Carrol
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send e-mail anywhere. No map, no compass.
>