I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
One version only of course. Diana
> Somewhere in the book of Revelation, early on I think,
> the following statement is made: Be thou either hot or cold.
> I thou art neither hot nor cold, I will vomit thee out of my mouth.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nancy Gish" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 11:03 AM
> Subject: Re: Eliotists
> > I think Eliot is clearly referring to negative and positive ways of
> mysticism--love of the created world and a mysticism of immanence, or
> rejection and the negative way. Neither is like indifference--neither
> caring or acting--which is what lands people in the vestibule of Hell, not
> even worth damning. Both detachment and attachment, in Eliot's phrases, are
> to "self and to things and to persons"--not to God or to good or to
> engagement where it is necessary. One could be "detached" in a theological
> sense and still hide a fugitive from Nazis. One could be "attached" in a
> theological sense and still focus on, say, one's community rather than a
> world-wide problem. Choices are unavoidable, I presume. But I do not think
> one can read these lines in the terms of conventional or individual meanings
> of "attachment" or "detachment" because of the context in the poem. It
> follows the Dantesque scene of his own firewatching in WWII--one assumes
> attachment to his own country. It pre!
> > cedes the section on Little Gidding itself and the lines from Julian of
> Norwich, a cloistered nun sealed up in a wall with only a window. Little
> Gidding was a kind of lay monastic life but one of community; Julian was a
> recluse (though she did have visitors at the window).
> > Whether one accepts these as the only options is a quite different issue.
> It is possible to be emotionally deeply attached or detached and still make
> judgments that call for engagement rather than allowing evil to prevail.
> > Cheers,
> > Nancy
> > >>> Alex Freer <[log in to unmask]> 04/20/08 7:53 AM >>>
> > On Saturday 19 April 2008 23:17:42 Carrol Cox wrote:
> > > Translated into terms of human action, this seems to be a perfect excuse
> > > to ignore massacres & other horors -- after all they are merely things
> > > and/or persons.
> > If detachment is:
> > "disconnecting, separation, standing apart or aloof from objects or
> > circumstances"
> > then it is surely a positive trait in the field of human action. After
> > the "massacres" of the world have occurred while good men remained aloof,
> > which is the point I believe you made, yet that is the passive condition
> > said massacre. The active condition is something much more disturbing, a
> > self-assured, emotional and prejudicial attachment to the events and
> > concerned. It cannot be said that the perpetrators of genocide had true
> > objectivity towards their victims, therefore they were not "standing
> > from circumstances, but rather being consumed by them.
> > At worst, then, detachment can only be as bad as attachment in a general
> > sense, and each has its problems and advantages in specific circumstances.
> > On Sunday 20 April 2008 00:51:14 Kate Troy wrote:
> > > Attachment, I believe, Carrol, is
> > > a good thing in general, in that it often brings feelings of warmth and
> > > friendship.
> > In the field of human emotion, attachment is of course a marvellous thing.
> > would try to draw a distinction between emotion and action. While it is
> > that the two are intrinsically linked, I should like to think that we
> > aspire to be connected emotionally to people and objects, and aspire to be
> > apart from circumstances and without prejudice in our actions. I recognise
> > is not a goal that may be fully achieved, but that does not denigrate the
> > struggle.
> > --
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> 11:31 AM
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