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Rev. 3:14-22
 
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 
 
One version only of course. Diana> Somewhere in the book of Revelation, early on I think,> the following statement is made: Be thou either hot or cold.> I thou art neither hot nor cold, I will vomit thee out of my mouth.> > P.> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nancy Gish" <[log in to unmask]>> To: <[log in to unmask]>> Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 11:03 AM> Subject: Re: Eliotists> > > > I think Eliot is clearly referring to negative and positive ways of> mysticism--love of the created world and a mysticism of immanence, or> rejection and the negative way. Neither is like indifference--neither> caring or acting--which is what lands people in the vestibule of Hell, not> even worth damning. Both detachment and attachment, in Eliot's phrases, are> to "self and to things and to persons"--not to God or to good or to> engagement where it is necessary. One could be "detached" in a theological> sense and still hide a fugitive from Nazis. One could be "attached" in a> theological sense and still focus on, say, one's community rather than a> world-wide problem. Choices are unavoidable, I presume. But I do not think> one can read these lines in the terms of conventional or individual meanings> of "attachment" or "detachment" because of the context in the poem. It> follows the Dantesque scene of his own firewatching in WWII--one assumes> attachment to his own country. It pre!> > cedes the section on Little Gidding itself and the lines from Julian of> Norwich, a cloistered nun sealed up in a wall with only a window. Little> Gidding was a kind of lay monastic life but one of community; Julian was a> recluse (though she did have visitors at the window).> >> > Whether one accepts these as the only options is a quite different issue.> It is possible to be emotionally deeply attached or detached and still make> judgments that call for engagement rather than allowing evil to prevail.> > Cheers,> > Nancy> >> > >>> Alex Freer <[log in to unmask]> 04/20/08 7:53 AM >>>> > On Saturday 19 April 2008 23:17:42 Carrol Cox wrote:> > > Translated into terms of human action, this seems to be a perfect excuse> > > to ignore massacres & other horors -- after all they are merely things> > > and/or persons.> >> > If detachment is:> > "disconnecting, separation, standing apart or aloof from objects or> > circumstances"> > then it is surely a positive trait in the field of human action. After> all,> > the "massacres" of the world have occurred while good men remained aloof,> > which is the point I believe you made, yet that is the passive condition> for> > said massacre. The active condition is something much more disturbing, a> very> > self-assured, emotional and prejudicial attachment to the events and> people> > concerned. It cannot be said that the perpetrators of genocide had true> > objectivity towards their victims, therefore they were not "standing> apart"> > from circumstances, but rather being consumed by them.> >> > At worst, then, detachment can only be as bad as attachment in a general> > sense, and each has its problems and advantages in specific circumstances.> >> > On Sunday 20 April 2008 00:51:14 Kate Troy wrote:> > > Attachment, I believe, Carrol, is> > > a good thing in general, in that it often brings feelings of warmth and> > > friendship.> >> > In the field of human emotion, attachment is of course a marvellous thing.> I> > would try to draw a distinction between emotion and action. While it is> true> > that the two are intrinsically linked, I should like to think that we> might> > aspire to be connected emotionally to people and objects, and aspire to be> > apart from circumstances and without prejudice in our actions. I recognise> it> > is not a goal that may be fully achieved, but that does not denigrate the> > struggle.> >> >> > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message.> > Checked by AVG.> > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1387 - Release Date: 4/19/2008> 11:31 AM> >> >
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