Also the stated intention may be accurate, but doesnot exclude many other aesthetic dynamics at play.
Ultimately the debate on intention leads nowher.
----- Original Message -----
From: [log in to unmask] href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">Diana Manister
To: [log in to unmask] href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 6:13 AM
Subject: Re: Eliot Quote for Yale Book of Quotations

Fred, the author's stated intentions are sometimes belied by the text in question. Diana

> Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 14:32:44 -0400
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Eliot Quote for Yale Book of Quotations
> To: [log in to unmask]
> In The Yale Book of Quotations, which has more quotations from T. S. Eliot than from any other person besides Shakespeare and Twain, I quote the "rhythmical grumbling" statement from the facsimile edition. Can anyone supply the citation for the Harvard lecture where this quote originated, so that I can improve the sourcing for it in the next edition of the YBQ? For the next edition, I would also welcome any other improvements or suggestions of added quotations for the Eliot section of the book.
> Fred Shapiro
> ________________________________________
> From: T. S. Eliot Discussion forum. [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Nancy Gish [[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 5:41 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Inventions of the March Hare ( Was Re: EASTER)
> He denied it (as in note 2) at a Harvard lecture quoted in the facsimile edition on p.1--it was quoted from a Harvard lecture and recorded by Eliot's brother: "Various critics have done me the honour to interpret the poem in terms of criticism of the contemporary world, have considered it, indeed, as and important bit of social criticism. To me it was only the relief of a persolan and wholly insignificant grouse against life; it was just a piece of rhythmical grumbling."
> >>> Carrol Cox <[log in to unmask]> 03/19/08 5:12 PM >>>
> Diana Manister wrote:
> >
> > At least in TWL the zeitgeist
> > speaks.
> 1. I would challenge the existence of any such entity as the
> "Zeitgeist." Any age I know of exhibits too large a variety of fractured
> spirits to speak of _A_ spirit of the age. Put otherwise, I don't even
> know what "spirit of the age" could conceivably mean. It seems utterly
> empty of content.
> 2. Eliot did explicitly deny that TWL expressed some spirit of
> disillusinment of the age or something like that. Nancy or Marcia could
> probably be more explicit on this, citing the text and correcting my
> sloppiness here.
> 3. What does The Zeitgeist say? Storming of the Winter Palace? The
> General Strike? Lynchings in the South? (TWL follows by only a couple
> decades Twain's masterpieces, "The United States of Lyncherdom" and "To
> The Person Sitting in Darkness." The resignation, protesting Wilson's
> War Policy, of William Jennings Bryan: that is his true heritage, not
> the stupid trial? My great uncle, who organized sheepherders in Montana
> for the IWW. Beginning of the (hopeless?) struggle to end English 1 (its
> inventor called it the greatest mistake of his life)? The murder of Rosa
> Luxemberg? The Easter Rebellion? The failure to hang the various war
> criminals (all responsible politicians of Germany, France, England, &
> U.S.) Imprisonment of Gene Debs? Freeing of Gene Debs by the only honest
> u.s. president in the 205h c. -- Warren G. Harding?
> 4. When did this Zeitgeist leap into existence, and when did it sink
> into the grave? Would we recognize it were we to meet it walking down a
> dark alley?
> And so forth.
> Carrol

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