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The are various meanings to the word OR, which did you have in mind?
There is not enough information in the statement to make the disctinction
which you think you see there clearly apparent.
P.


-----Original Message-----
From: T. S. Eliot Discussion forum. on behalf of Nancy Gish
Sent: Sun 8/12/2007 6:48 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Fearing death by water
 
Perhaps if you look up "or" in the dictionary?

Also try to treat others on the list with some generosity of spirit?

>>> Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]> 08/12/07 4:07 AM >>>
The context would support thinking that Catholics do do it.
P.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nancy Gish" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 3:53 PM
Subject: Re: Fearing death by water


> She did not say Catholics do it.  There are Christian churches that
do.
> What is your point?
> N
>
> >>> Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]> 08/11/07 7:41 PM >>>
> I suppose there may be some exceptions, but as far as I am
> aware, the Catholic Church hasn't practised full immersion
> baptism for a long, long time.
> P.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Diana Manister
>   To: [log in to unmask]
>   Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 7:36 AM
>   Subject: Re: Fearing death by water
>
>
>   Nancy I will read those Levertov poems. I have only read The Golden
> Notebook.
>
>   As harsh as the nuns were on girls, they really attacked boys. I
mean
> drew blood. I've heard this from other lapsed catholics who attended
> other schools. If you told your parents  a nun injured you they
thought
> you must be very bad and punished you again, so you told no one.
>
>   A propos of water, have we mentioned the holy water that sits by
every
> church door, with which those entering bless themselves after dipping
> their fingers in it? And the water in the baptismal font or the water
in
> which full-immerson baptisms are conducted? Diana
>
>
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>
>     From:  Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]>
>     Reply-To:  "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
>     To:  [log in to unmask]
>     Subject:  Re: Fearing death by water
>     Date:  Thu, 9 Aug 2007 16:24:49 -0400
>     It does derive from Platonism, but the argument can be made--and
has
> been by a wonderful Catholic Church historian friend of mine--that
this
> has been a wrong direction in the Church because it is in
contradiction
> to the Incarnation.  Jesus did not deny his body in sacrificing it: 
he
> affirmed it in being born into flesh and in suffering as flesh.
>
>     I think you would find it interesting to read--if you have
> not--Denise Levertov's late Catholic poems (she became, in her own
> words, increasingly orthodox), especially those in BREATHING THE WATER
> (New Directions, 1987).  "On a Theme from Julian's Chapter XX" is
about
> Jesus on the cross and the meaning she sees in his suffering as body.
>
>     I am not Catholic; I just read these things and talk with those
who
> are theologians.  So my own view is not represented by this statement.
>
>     My own view is shame on those Benedictine nuns for cruelty to
> children.
>     Cheers,
>     Nancy
>
>
>     Dear Carrol, thanks for the information. I was educated by
> Benedictine nuns and we were certainly taught to regard the body as
> something to be overcome by denial. And they were happy to help us
> disrespect our bodies by smacking us with rulers and making us kneel
on
> dry beans as punishment! We were praised for fasting and giving up
foods
> we liked for Lent. If you have been to Italy you have probably
witnessed
> the devout crawling up enormous flights of stairs in churches on their
> hands and knees. Self-flagellation is practiced by some (remember the
> scene in The Da Vinci Code?) Jesus set the ultimate example of denying
> the body when he allowed himself to be crucified when he could have
> avoided it. It seems to me this descends from Platonic dualism. The
> spirit/body split. Catholic ascetics are not all Manicheans are they?
> Diana
>
>
>
>     >>> Diana Manister <[log in to unmask]> 08/09/07 3:42 PM >>>
>
>
>
>
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