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Great point but not that it always happens that way.
God is delightfully quixotic about the spiritual life.

Father Padre Pio was having obsessions by the
devil as a very young boy.

Cheers,
P.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Chokh Raj 
  To: [log in to unmask] 
  Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 10:22 AM
  Subject: Re: The boat imagery in TWL


  Ken,

  To Eliot, the death of the Self is ancillary to spiritual rebirth.
  One has first to arrive at the stage of what Saint John of the Cross
  called The Dark Night of the Soul. Here's how 'Burnt Norton' 
  describes it :

   Descend lower, descend only
  Into the world of perpetual solitude,
  World not world, but that which is not world,
  Internal darkness, deprivation
  And destitution of all property,
  Desiccation of the world of sense,
  Evacuation of the world of fancy,
  Inoperancy of the world of spirit;
  This is the one way, and the other
  Is the same, not in movement
  But abstention from movement; while the world moves
  In appetency, on its metalled ways
  Of time past and time future.

  Regards,
  CR


  Ken Armstrong <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
    At 07:18 PM 7/30/2007, Barnwell Black wrote:
    >CR,
    > Contrast this with the entirely different boat/ship imagery in 
    > "The Dry Salvages" II and III where the imagery used by the "older" 
    > post-conversion T. S. Eliot is focused upon the path toward the death of 
    > the Self and spiritual rebirth.


    Barnwell,

    //Where exactly is the death of the Self in TSE?// And do you mean Self 
    instead of self (or what is the distinction)? My thought is that TSE, pre- 
    or post-conversion, would be more inclined to turn the self toward God than 
    to extinguish it.

    Thanks,
    Ken A.




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