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Perhaps if you look up "or" in the dictionary?

Also try to treat others on the list with some generosity of spirit?

>>> Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]> 08/12/07 4:07 AM >>>
The context would support thinking that Catholics do do it.
P.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nancy Gish" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 3:53 PM
Subject: Re: Fearing death by water


> She did not say Catholics do it.  There are Christian churches that
do.
> What is your point?
> N
>
> >>> Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]> 08/11/07 7:41 PM >>>
> I suppose there may be some exceptions, but as far as I am
> aware, the Catholic Church hasn't practised full immersion
> baptism for a long, long time.
> P.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Diana Manister
>   To: [log in to unmask]
>   Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 7:36 AM
>   Subject: Re: Fearing death by water
>
>
>   Nancy I will read those Levertov poems. I have only read The Golden
> Notebook.
>
>   As harsh as the nuns were on girls, they really attacked boys. I
mean
> drew blood. I've heard this from other lapsed catholics who attended
> other schools. If you told your parents  a nun injured you they
thought
> you must be very bad and punished you again, so you told no one.
>
>   A propos of water, have we mentioned the holy water that sits by
every
> church door, with which those entering bless themselves after dipping
> their fingers in it? And the water in the baptismal font or the water
in
> which full-immerson baptisms are conducted? Diana
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>     From:  Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]>
>     Reply-To:  "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
>     To:  [log in to unmask]
>     Subject:  Re: Fearing death by water
>     Date:  Thu, 9 Aug 2007 16:24:49 -0400
>     It does derive from Platonism, but the argument can be made--and
has
> been by a wonderful Catholic Church historian friend of mine--that
this
> has been a wrong direction in the Church because it is in
contradiction
> to the Incarnation.  Jesus did not deny his body in sacrificing it: 
he
> affirmed it in being born into flesh and in suffering as flesh.
>
>     I think you would find it interesting to read--if you have
> not--Denise Levertov's late Catholic poems (she became, in her own
> words, increasingly orthodox), especially those in BREATHING THE WATER
> (New Directions, 1987).  "On a Theme from Julian's Chapter XX" is
about
> Jesus on the cross and the meaning she sees in his suffering as body.
>
>     I am not Catholic; I just read these things and talk with those
who
> are theologians.  So my own view is not represented by this statement.
>
>     My own view is shame on those Benedictine nuns for cruelty to
> children.
>     Cheers,
>     Nancy
>
>
>     Dear Carrol, thanks for the information. I was educated by
> Benedictine nuns and we were certainly taught to regard the body as
> something to be overcome by denial. And they were happy to help us
> disrespect our bodies by smacking us with rulers and making us kneel
on
> dry beans as punishment! We were praised for fasting and giving up
foods
> we liked for Lent. If you have been to Italy you have probably
witnessed
> the devout crawling up enormous flights of stairs in churches on their
> hands and knees. Self-flagellation is practiced by some (remember the
> scene in The Da Vinci Code?) Jesus set the ultimate example of denying
> the body when he allowed himself to be crucified when he could have
> avoided it. It seems to me this descends from Platonic dualism. The
> spirit/body split. Catholic ascetics are not all Manicheans are they?
> Diana
>
>
>
>     >>> Diana Manister <[log in to unmask]> 08/09/07 3:42 PM >>>
>
>
>
>
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