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Conceivably, London is the narrator. I don't see a standard singler voice narrator. There is an interpenetration and metamorphosis of voives. P. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nancy Gish" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 7:46 AM Subject: Re: Water in TWL--why? > "A whole" and "a unity" may not be the same. "A Drunk Man Looks at the > Thistle," for example, seems to be framed by a "whole" of inclusiveness, > not a unifying by exclusion. I never feel a final sense about what > Eliot's "whole" is, but it does involve exclusions in a way MacDiarmid's > equally vast and brilliant poem does not. I do not think there is ever > a valid claim that "poetry must. . . " because one can always find poems > that don't . . ., whatever it is. But in the case of TWL Pound at least > thought it was a single text from beginning to end. Eliot seemed unsure > both when he suggested including "Gerontion" and dropping "Death by > Water," and much later when he called it just "rhythmical grumbling." > There is, for example, a single narrator of "Drunk Man" who can pretty > much be identified with MacDiarmid. It is problematic that TWL has any > single voice. I am not sure Diana's view of it as monologic is right > even though I once argued the same thing. I feel sometimes that Eliot > really can't control the voices of his characters like the women in the > pub or Marie or whoever asks about "the third who walks always beside > you." > Cheers, > Nancy > >>> Ken Armstrong <[log in to unmask]> 08/02/07 11:27 AM >>> > At 12:23 AM 8/2/2007, Richard Seddon wrote: > > >To me both Pound and Eliot seemed to be working to some sense of the > parts > >fitting together. > > Excellent point. Whether you call it a whole or a unity, if it is one > poem, however well executed, it is a unity. Interesting, too, that while > > Pound and Eliot viewed the poem as a whole, they might not each have > viewed > it as the other did. Seems probable that they didn't. > > Ken A > > > >They seemed to think that there was some whole into which > >a variety of very fine poetry did not fit. Examples are "Gerotion" and > the > >ship board scene. Other poetry was added, after Pounds condensation, > which > >Eliot seemed to feel fit in with and enhanced the rest. > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.2/933 - Release Date: 8/2/2007 2:22 PM > >