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The most obvious explanation is sometimes the truest.  Isn't  it simply 
"irony" that she predicts death by water in the midst of a  drought.
As for Peter's latest post, Peter obviously believes that everybody is like  
himself.  Except for some silly behavior when I was a teenager, I have very  
little to face or regret.
 
Regards,
 
Kate
 
In a message dated 7/28/2007 4:25:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[log in to unmask] writes:

There is a line in 4Q about surrendering all one  has done and been,
or something like that. facing the shadow.  Looking at all those years of
business shananigans, smuggling &c. facing  how wring they were.
Who likes to  admit, esp. to himself, he's been a real asshole. It means
there is no merit for mercy (which in fact is  true of all of us anyway).
 
Rebirth isn't possible, if death doesn't  occur.
 
P.

----- Original Message ----- 
From:  _Diana Manister_ (mailto:[log in to unmask])  
To: [log in to unmask] (mailto:[log in to unmask])  
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 6:52  AM
Subject: Re: Water in TWL




Yes,  I've been to the baptismal font myself. But why fear and death if it's  
rebirth? Diana   
Ever heard of baptism?
Cheers,
P.

----- Original Message ----- 
From:  _Diana Manister_ (mailto:[log in to unmask])  
To: [log in to unmask] (mailto:[log in to unmask])  
Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 10:48  AM
Subject: Water in TWL



 
Dear CR: Eliot seems to place great credence in Sosostris' prediction  about 
death by water, to wit: 
"I.   The Burial of the Dead 
Here, said she, 
Is your card, the drowned Phoenician  Sailor 
...Fear death by water...." 
In Part IV, the prediction has fulfilled itself: 
"IV. Death by Water 

Phlebas the Phoenician, a fortnight dead,  
Forgot the  cry of gulls, and the deep sea swell
And the profit and  loss.
A current  under sea
Picked his bones in whispers.  As he rose and  fell
He passes the stages of his age and youth
Entering the  whirlpool." 
Something that has always perplexed me is the dual symbolism of water  in the 
poem. Soon after the drowning of Phlebas the narrator years for  water. Taken 
by itself, the latter passages are understandable as a  yearning for more 
"juice" in a life that has become dry and sterile.  However, seen against the 
dreadful prediction, it acquires dark  overtones, as if the narrator were longing 
for death by water. 
"           If  there were water
And no rock
If there were rock
And also  water
And water  
A spring
A pool among the rock
If  there were the sound of water only
Not the cicada
And dry grass  singing
But sound of water over a rock
Where the hermit-thrush  sings in the pine trees
Drip drop drip drop drop drop drop 
But  there is no water" 
I would be most appreciative of any comments on the meaning of  water in the 
poem. Diana 






 
____________________________________

From:  Chokh Raj  <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:  "T. S. Eliot  Discussion forum."  <[log in to unmask]>
To:  [log in to unmask]
Subject:  Re:  Rewrite The Waste Land - Part IV
Date:  Fri, 27  Jul 2007 10:27:12 -0700


I suppose Eliot wouldn't be carried  away by mere predictions !
 
CR


Diana Manister  <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

    
 
Nonetheless,  Sosostris is right in at least one of her readings!  Diana      
      







 
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