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There is a line in 4Q about surrendering all one has done and been,
or something like that. facing the shadow. Looking at all those years of
business shananigans, smuggling &c. facing how wring they were.
Who likes to admit, esp. to himself, he's been a real asshole. It means
there is no merit for mercy (which in fact is true of all of us anyway).

Rebirth isn't possible, if death doesn't occur.

P.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Diana Manister 
  To: [log in to unmask] 
  Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 6:52 AM
  Subject: Re: Water in TWL



  Yes, I've been to the baptismal font myself. But why fear and death if it's rebirth? Diana 

    Ever heard of baptism?
    Cheers,
    P.
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Diana Manister 
      To: [log in to unmask] 
      Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 10:48 AM
      Subject: Water in TWL


      Dear CR: Eliot seems to place great credence in Sosostris' prediction about death by water, to wit:

      "I.   The Burial of the Dead

       Here, said she, 
      Is your card, the drowned Phoenician Sailor

      ...Fear death by water...."

      In Part IV, the prediction has fulfilled itself:

      "IV. Death by Water


      Phlebas the Phoenician, a fortnight dead,  
      Forgot the cry of gulls, and the deep sea swell
      And the profit and loss.
               A current under sea
      Picked his bones in whispers.  As he rose and fell
      He passes the stages of his age and youth
      Entering the whirlpool."

      Something that has always perplexed me is the dual symbolism of water in the poem. Soon after the drowning of Phlebas the narrator years for water. Taken by itself, the latter passages are understandable as a yearning for more "juice" in a life that has become dry and sterile. However, seen against the dreadful prediction, it acquires dark overtones, as if the narrator were longing for death by water.

      "           If there were water
      And no rock
      If there were rock
      And also water
      And water  
      A spring
      A pool among the rock
      If there were the sound of water only
      Not the cicada
      And dry grass singing
      But sound of water over a rock
      Where the hermit-thrush sings in the pine trees
      Drip drop drip drop drop drop drop 
      But there is no water"

      I would be most appreciative of any comments on the meaning of water in the poem. Diana




       


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        From:  Chokh Raj <[log in to unmask]>
        Reply-To:  "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
        To:  [log in to unmask]
        Subject:  Re: Rewrite The Waste Land - Part IV
        Date:  Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:27:12 -0700



        I suppose Eliot wouldn't be carried away by mere predictions !
           

           
        CR
           


        Diana Manister <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
           
             
             
             
          Nonetheless, Sosostris is right in at least one of her readings! Diana               

               
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