Well now, if that doesn't raise the question of that famous fartiste
Le Petomane who was adroit at making recognisable sound
sequences using his sphincter muscle..
 The Straight Dope: Did a French vaudeville star once specialize in ...
A modern re-eactment is available at YouTube:
I would give the Wikipedia reference, but its reliability being what it is,
this phenomenon would seem too improbable........
----- Original Message -----
From: [log in to unmask] href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">Diana Manister
To: [log in to unmask] href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2007 1:17 PM
Subject: Re: Rewrite The Waste Land

Carrol wrote: "I vaguely remember a scene in some movie or tv drama that was  structured by farts from one of the characters. "

Wasn't that the campfire scene from Blazing Saddles, the Mel Brooks movie? As I recall the cowboys' cook made beans for dinner, which resulted in the interjections you cite. Diana

From:  Carrol Cox <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:  "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
To:  [log in to unmask]
Subject:  Re: Rewrite The Waste Land
Date:  Sun, 22 Jul 2007 16:09:20 -0500
Nancy Gish wrote:
> I'm not at all clear why you see this as a questionable conversation
> since it has to do with fundamental issues of linguistics,

Yes, often weird beginnings generate useful endings -- i.e., the idea of
the pre-verbal in a poem strikes me as simply bizarre, but you are right
it did lead to some more iinteresting issues.

  but I agree
> with your claims here about the conventional status of word and meaning
> and the centrality of context or syntax.  Diana will  have to say what
> she meant by the words she cites, but symbolizing the pre-verbal seems
> rather like an oxymoron to me.

Perhaps. One can have pre-verbal in film or tv: I vaguely remember a
scene in some movie or tv drama that was  structured by farts from one
of the characters. Also, my hearing is poor and when watching TV I turn
on the close captioning -- hence every so often I will read at the
bottom of the screen "sigh" (when I hear no sigh) or other labelling of
soundd effects which I hadn't heard. Such mere sounds have to be turned
into cognitive content, however, by either viewer or the characters
themselves before they actually form part of the work. The first word of
Browning's "Soliloquy" does seem to gesture towards a 'something' in the
friar that he never does articulate.

I wouldn't push the point too hard; I was playing around with what might
conceivably be misconstrued as pre-verbal in a verbal construct, and
"symbolizing the pre-verbal" seemed to me the closest I could come.


Missed the show?  Watch videos of the Live Earth Concert on MSN.

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.14/912 - Release Date: 7/22/2007 7:02 PM