Peter, a Lacanian interpretation of empty cistern would bring it back to the Old Testament of Freud. Diana

From:  Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:  "T. S. Eliot Discussion forum." <[log in to unmask]>
To:  [log in to unmask]
Subject:  Re: a Jeremiah sighting?
Date:  Mon, 9 Jul 2007 14:47:01 -0800
A cistern with many brethren. That there are other uses of OT
prophets in TWL suggests that the use of Jeremiah does have an
OT context in the poem. How can lines in the OT NOT be religious?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nancy Gish" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: a Jeremiah sighting?

> Yes, it is now placed in a new context that can, if you want, be read as
> religious, but that is not its first appearance.  That is what I said.
> There are cisterns in the Old Testament and plenty other cisterns.
> What is significant here is that TWL has been read in very different
> ways since 1922; the religious reading is mainly a look back from later
> work and was not what readers first thought.  That there are religious
> images is not, in itself, reason to see it as longing for religion.  In
> any case, the cistern does not need to be read through the Old Testament
> unless one places it in a larger context that is only one way of reading
> the poem.
> Cheers,
> Nancy
> >>> cr mittal <[log in to unmask]> 07/07/07 8:13 PM >>>
> And voices singing out of empty cisterns and exhausted wells.
>   The context of this line from 'What the Thunder Said' is already
>   there in the opening lines of the section:
>   // He who was living is now dead //
>   We who were living are now dying
>   With a little patience
>   And this elaboration of what Peter Montgomery wrote :
>     In the Old Testament the empty cisterns and wells signified the loss
>     of faith and worship of false gods.  God tells the prophet Jeremiah:
>     'For my people have committed two evils; //they have forsaken me
>     the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken
>     cisterns, that can hold no water'// (Jeremiah ii, 13).
>                ~ Notes on T.S. Eliot's Selected Poems by Manju Jain
>                   (Delhi: OUP, 1998, p.188):
>   Regards,
>   CR
> Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]> wrote:    The image of the cistern
> appears in a loose leaf of Eliot's notebook,
> INVENTIONS OF THE MARCH HARE. It is undated but part of material well
> before TWL and in the context of "introspection," which he was thinking
> about in relation to Bradley and wrote about to his mother in 1917.
> //Eliot used images over and over, but this one does not seem to
>   have begun in religious or in Waste Land sources.//
> Nancy
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