Print

Print


Castles are a main defensive tool,
second in power to the Queen.
P.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Diana Manister 
  To: [log in to unmask] 
  Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 6:05 AM
  Subject: Re: The ivory men


  Yes, expensive. Especially for the elephants. Eliot would have taken this resonance of the word into account. Ivory men are men who trade in ivory as well as chess pieces made from ivory. A game of chess then includes the symbolic war taking place on the board and the slaughter of innocents. Diana

  Peter wrote:

    Still, the question is fascinating. I think the key word is IVORY?  Why ivory?
    Very expensive.

    Cheers,
    Peter
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: cr mittal 
      To: [log in to unmask] 
      Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 10:39 AM
      Subject: Re: The ivory men


      Interesting, Rick.  I've been brooding over it for a while.

      As for your "invented story of the chess set being a wedding gift" 
      that came with a note "The ivory men make company between us",
      it's quite plausible. 

      To me, Viv's suggestion to remove the line from TWL implies that even 
      the ivory men do not make company "between us". Ironically enough, 
      Eliot's insistence to include the line would also imply the same thing,
      but with a difference. Incidentally, 'The Death of the Duchess' included 
      the line, "But it is terrible to be alone with another person". 

      Poetically and aesthetically, I appreciate Viv's masterly touch. 
      The "ivory men" line breaks the rhythm, as well as the compactness. 


      Regards,

      CR



      Rickard A Parker <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
        A post from CR got me looking at TWL's game of chess more closely.
        The chess game lines in TWL came from a draft poem called "Death of
        the Duchess" which had these lines:

        * We should play a game of chess
        * The ivory men make company between us
        * We should play a game of chess
        * Pressing lidless eyes and waiting for a knock upon the door.

        Eliot took these lines, tweaked them and combined them in a new way to
        produce this in the TWL draft:

        * And we shall play a game of chess:
        * The ivory men make company between us
        * Pressing lidless eyes and waiting for a knock upon the door.

        According to Valerie Eliot Vivienne requested that the middle line be
        removed producing:
        * And we shall play a game of chess,
        * Pressing lidless eyes and waiting for a knock upon the door.

        Eliot must have hated doing this. In 1960 he added the line back in a
        copy of the poem sold to benefit the London Library. Also, since the
        manuscript of TWL didn't have a note or marking to get rid of the line,
        he must have mentioned the line to Valerie when he was alive.

        The three line version would have become an echo at the end of the
        first section of Part II of the tangled syntax at the beginning of the
        section (with the chess pieces at first appearing to be the ones with
        the lidless eyes).

        Now, going from the poetry to the biography, I am interested in
        hearing opinions why Vivien requested the line to be omitted. She
        noted "Wonderful" next to the conversational part of the section
        although if read biographically it would not be flattering. The
        redacted line seems so much nicer.

        The best explanation I can come up with is my invented story of the
        chess set being a wedding gift that game with a note saying something
        like the deleted line and Viv didn't want the giver to be offended.

        Regards,
        Rick Parker





--------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Get your own web address.
      Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------


      No virus found in this incoming message.
      Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
      Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.12/878 - Release Date: 6/28/2007 5:57 PM





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Picture this - share your photos and you could win big! 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
  Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.12/878 - Release Date: 6/28/2007 5:57 PM