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You are equating nirvana with enlightenment?
----- Original Message -----
From: [log in to unmask] href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">cr mittal
To: [log in to unmask] href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: Eliot's Indic Studies

I equate "knowing the place for the first time" to a state of realization
(Buddhistic state of enlightenment -- "Buddha" means "the enlightened
The "samsaara" (the world) is a field of activity without which
"nirvaana" (liberation) is unthinkable. The two do not exist apart
from each other. This is possibly what Buddha had in mind,
I guess.
~ CR

Ken Armstrong <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Possibly, when you can SAY one is the other (the act being different from
the "fact"), there is in it the idea of "knowing the place for the first time."

At 11:02 AM 12/7/2006, you wrote:
>Absolutely, all in a hedgerow, Peter.
>Your reference to the numinal world brings me to the following link.
>Not that it relates exactly to the subject in hand but yes it does, in
>a way:
>Things relate to things and bring them under one sphere.
>Yesterday, Ken's query about "samsaara" (the phenomenal world)
>and "nirvaana" (Buddhist liberation from the sufferings of this world)
>got me bemused about the paradoxical way in which the two are one.
>Ken had wanted me to explain these terms -- roughly.
>So here's my view of it.
>Buddha realized that the world (samsaara) is a place of suffering.
>The way to freedom (nirvaana) from suffering lies not in escape
>from the world to some solitary retreat but by living in this world
>and cultivating a right mode of life. His main stress is on right
>thought and right conduct. Evil thoughts, as well as evil deeds,
>bring suffering. Good thoughts, as well as good deeds, bring
>I too am reminded of Eliot's "still point" where one is,
>paradoxically, in motion and not in motion, one is
>part of the world and yet apart from it.
>The crux of Hindu philosophy (in the Bhagavad Gita) is
>its emphasis on "righteous action" as well as a state of
>detachment from both joys and sorrows.
>I'm reminded of the Christian emphasis on good deeds:
>"Everyman, I shall go with thee."
>It is only by passing through the fire of this world
>that one gets purified. The hell, the purgatory, and
>the paradise are metaphoric territories of human mind --
>in the here and the now.
>Sounds like timeless sermons. But that's part of
>Eliot's "tradition" I suppose :)
>~ CR
>Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>All in a hedgerow.
>Then there is the numinal world, and access(attachment) to it at the still
>----- Original Message -----
>From: [log in to unmask]>cr mittal
>To: [log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]
>Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 7:28 AM
>Subject: Re: Eliot's Indic Studies
>Hello Ken,
>The word "samsaara" denotes the phenomenal "world",
>and "nirvaana" denotes "freedom" from it.
>The article at the following link could be of further help
>on this subject:
>~ CR
>Ken Armstrong <[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>For the non-Buddhists among us, can you say roughly what are Sa.msaara
>and the more familiar
>Ken A.
>At 10:48 PM 12/5/2006, you wrote:
> >Dear Listers,
> >
> >Sa.msaara is nothing essentially different from
> > is nothing essentially different from sa.msaara.
> >
> >The limits of nirvaana are the limits of samsaara.
> >Between the two, also, there is not the slightest difference whatsoever.' "
> >
> >Rather puzzling! No wonder TSE felt the need to "continue to explore".
> >
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