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The place achieves figuredom against the ground of all the other places one
has been and not known for the first time.

P.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ken Armstrong" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 8:26 AM
Subject: Re: Eliot's Indic Studies


> Possibly, when you can SAY one is the other (the act being different from
> the "fact"), there is in it the idea of "knowing the place for the first
time."
>
> At 11:02 AM 12/7/2006, you wrote:
> >Absolutely, all in a hedgerow, Peter.
> >
> >Your reference to the numinal world brings me to the following link.
> >Not that it relates exactly to the subject in hand but yes it does, in
> >a way:
>
><http://www.numinism.net/pakupaku/index.php?page=Whatisit>http://www.numini
sm.net/pakupaku/index.php?page=Whatisit
> >Things relate to things and bring them under one sphere.
> >
> >Yesterday, Ken's query about "samsaara" (the phenomenal world)
> >and "nirvaana" (Buddhist liberation from the sufferings of this world)
> >got me bemused about the paradoxical way in which the two are one.
> >Ken had wanted me to explain these terms -- roughly.
> >So here's my view of it.
> >
> >Buddha realized that the world (samsaara) is a place of suffering.
> >The way to freedom (nirvaana) from suffering lies not in escape
> >from the world to some solitary retreat but by living in this world
> >and cultivating a right mode of life. His main stress is on right
> >thought and right conduct. Evil thoughts, as well as evil deeds,
> >bring suffering. Good thoughts, as well as good deeds, bring
> >happiness.
> >
> >I too am reminded of Eliot's "still point" where one is,
> >paradoxically, in motion and not in motion, one is
> >part of the world and yet apart from it.
> >
> >The crux of Hindu philosophy (in the Bhagavad Gita) is
> >its emphasis on "righteous action" as well as a state of
> >detachment from both joys and sorrows.
> >
> >I'm reminded of the Christian emphasis on good deeds:
> >"Everyman, I shall go with thee."
> >
> >It is only by passing through the fire of this world
> >that one gets purified. The hell, the purgatory, and
> >the paradise are metaphoric territories of human mind --
> >in the here and the now.
> >
> >Sounds like timeless sermons. But that's part of
> >Eliot's "tradition" I suppose :)
> >
> >Regards.
> >
> >~ CR
> >
> >
> >
> >Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >All in a hedgerow.
> >
> >Then there is the numinal world, and access(attachment) to it at the
still
> >point.
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <mailto:[log in to unmask]>cr mittal
> >To: <mailto:[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]
> >Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 7:28 AM
> >Subject: Re: Eliot's Indic Studies
> >
> >Hello Ken,
> >
> >The word "samsaara" denotes the phenomenal "world",
> >and "nirvaana" denotes "freedom" from it.
> >
> >The article at the following link could be of further help
> >on this subject:
> >
>
><http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-PHIL/ew27013.htm>http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw
/FULLTEXT/JR-PHIL/ew27013.htm
> >
> >Regards.
> >
> >~ CR
> >
> >
> >Ken Armstrong <<mailto:[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >CR,
> >
> >For the non-Buddhists among us, can you say roughly what are Sa.msaara
> >and the more familiar Nirvaa.na?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Ken A.
> >
> >At 10:48 PM 12/5/2006, you wrote:
> > >Dear Listers,
> > >
> > >Sa.msaara is nothing essentially different from nirvaa.na.
> > >Nirvaa.na is nothing essentially different from sa.msaara.
> > >
> > >The limits of nirvaana are the limits of samsaara.
> > >Between the two, also, there is not the slightest difference
whatsoever.' "
> > >
> > >Rather puzzling! No wonder TSE felt the need to "continue to explore".
> > >
> >
> >
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