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Ken, CR, Peter, thanks for the links!

--- Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> I just put in Pound and Portrait, and up it came.
> 
> http://rpo.library.utoronto.ca/poem/1662.html
> 
> P.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dunja Seselja" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 7:48 AM
> Subject: Re: Identity of the speaker in 'Preludes'
> 
> 
> > Yes, indeed. For, every seeing is "seeing as".
> > (But THAT is now fascinating, since, if we see
> > everything "as this-or-that", then what is this
> what
> > we see as this-or-that?)
> > 
> > Anyone knows if Pound's Portrait d'un Femme is
> maybe
> > somewhere on the web? Haven't found it with
> google...
> > 
> > Dunja
> > 
> > --- Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> > 
> > > It is amazing how much of one's own perceptual
> > > conditioning
> > > can be found in the poem. It isalso useful to
> > > reference
> > > Pound's Portrait d'un Femme, which makes a
> > > fascinating companion piece.
> > > "Your mind and you are our sargasso sea."
> > > 
> > > The poem is a spectral stone indeed.
> > > 
> > > P.
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "Dunja Seselja" <[log in to unmask]>
> > > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > > Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 2:18 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Identity of the speaker in
> 'Preludes'
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > Very interesting idea, Peter. There are, in
> > > general, a
> > > > lot similarities between Preludes, Portrait of
> a
> > > Lady
> > > > and Love Song of A.J. Prufrock. 
> > > > Could it be that the Preludes mentioned in
> > > Portrait of
> > > > a Lady are a cross-reference to Eliot's own
> > > Preludes? 
> > > > It is also interesting that in all three poems
> the
> > > > subject is confronted with what Marcian called
> > > > "ontological shock" - he is overwhelmed with
> time
> > > and
> > > > his finite existence in it. Heideggerian
> > > > being-to-death maybe? It is fascinating how
> much
> > > of
> > > > Heidegger can be found in early Eliot...
> written
> > > at
> > > > least 10 years before Heidegger's main work
> was
> > > > published.
> > > > 
> > > > Dunja
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > It might be worth considering "Portarait of
> a
> > > > > Lady"'s 
> > > > > "You have the scene arrange itself,as it
> will
> > > seem
> > > > > to do."
> > > > > P.
> > > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > > > From: "Dunja Seselja"
> <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 3:34 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: Identity of the speaker in
> > > 'Preludes'
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Dear Marcin,
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I've been thinking of the questions you
> rose
> > > at
> > > > > the
> > > > > > List and here are some ideas (and further
> > > > > questions)
> > > > > > I've come up to.
> > > > > > The subject appearing in Eliot's Preludes
> > > seems to
> > > > > be
> > > > > > undetermined, and in so far, I guess it
> could
> > > be
> > > > > even
> > > > > > see as the generic one. In any case, the
> main
> > > > > > characteristic of the subject (when I say
> the
> > > > > subject,
> > > > > > I don't mean the subject of the speaker,
> but
> > > the
> > > > > > subject the poem speaks of, but in how far
> > > they
> > > > > should
> > > > > > be distinguished at all, I'll say
> something a
> > > bit
> > > > > > later) is his/her passivity. While in the
> part
> > > I
> > > > > the
> > > > > > subject is set against the world (being
> > > subjected
> > > > > to
> > > > > > its course), in the part II (s)he is set
> > > against
> > > > > the
> > > > > > time (being "condemned" to it) . (I think
> the
> > > > > second
> > > > > > verse of the part II shares some of the
> ideas
> > > > > > appearing in Prufrock, and I'd be glad to
> > > discuss
> > > > > that
> > > > > > issue as well). 
> > > > > > In the part III, we finally see the
> subject
> > > > > *doing*
> > > > > > something, but even that ("you tossed a
> > > blanket")
> > > > > is
> > > > > > the action of removing = replying to what
> has
> > > > > already
> > > > > > been there. But what this part seems to
> bring
> > > is
> > > > > the
> > > > > > (only?) action left to the subject - to
> have a
> > > > > vision
> > > > > > (in solitude). Now, in the part IV, the
> > > subject of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > speaker finally appears, but almost
> equivalent
> > > to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > subject (s)he is  talking about - it is
> again
> > > a
> > > > > > passive subject (i am moved... I
> cling...).
> > > The
> > > > > final
> > > > > > verse reveals a sort of "catharsic"
> discovery
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > subject (both the speaker and the one
> (s)he is
> > > > > > speaking of), similar to the relation of
> the
> > > > > ancient
> > > > > > Greeks towards the destiny: as the destiny
> is
> > > > > > uncontrollable even by gods themselves,
> why
> > > making
> > > > > so
> > > > > > much fuss about it? 
> > > > > > It seems to me that the status of the
> subject
> > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > poem could be compared with Heidegger's
> notion
> > > of
> > > > > > "being thrown into the world" (excuse my
> > > > > formulation,
> 
=== message truncated ===


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