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There is now a sign language which can be taught to children before they
have the capacity to speak.
They can learn to indicate desires and reactions using such signs. In
effect, they can communicate before the language functions of their brains
are developed.

Cheers,
Peter (Montgomery)
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "robert meyer" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 12:26 AM
Subject: Re: Eliot, India and Translation


> Pete, I've heard that there's different cries too (usually from mothers,
> like there's some kind of 'psychic bond' between them), but I've never
> couldn't heard any difference either.  That period between just crying and
> actual talking, when they're making random vocal noises, seems to me like
> they are consciously experimenting how to communicate.  It reminds me of a
> Twilight Zone episode ("Probe 7: Over And Out") where an astronaut from an
> earth beginning a nuclear war crash-lands on a planet that has one
> inhabitant, a woman.  Both are conscious beings and both have languages
but
> there's no similarity between the languages, of course, so it's like there
> is no language at all; they have to make up a common language.  The story
> ends with finding out their names are Adam and Eve, but the viewer doesn't
> know whether it is set in the future or really set in the distant past.
>
> Robert
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Peter Dillane <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Date: 8/31/2006 2:38:19 AM
> > Subject: Re: Eliot, India and Translation
> >
> > It is sometimes said that there is no such thing as a baby - only a baby
> > and its attendants.
> >
> > The dear little autonomic packages may not have much consciousness
> > they still have a fair bit of brain making to do.
> >
> > On a more mundane level the paediatric literature claims three distinct
> > cries from babies for different needs. Not that I am offering a strong
> > contra to the problem of the baby example and its reflection on
> > consciousness.   (I've been listening to thousands of babies over the
> > years and I can't pick the different cries  - not even in my own.)
> >
> > Cheers pete
> >
> > robert meyer wrote:
> >
> > >Diana, I thought I was pretty clear.  Another example would be a human
> > >baby in the first few months of life.  When they are hungry they are
very
> > >conscious of being hungry, when they need changing they are very
> conscious
> > >of needing to be changed; but there is basically no language at all,
just
> > >crying that essentially says, "Hey everybody, SOMETHING.  I mean it
> > >now, SOMETHING.  SOMETHING, SOMETHING, SOMETHING!".
> > >Then the parents have toguess the current meaning of "something":
either
> > >"I'm hungry", or "I need to be changed", or "The TV is too loud", or
"My
> > >new tooth, that is just coming in, hurts", or dozens of other meanings.
> > >
> > >Robert
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>[Original Message]
> > >>From: Diana Manister <[log in to unmask]>
> > >>To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > >>Date: 8/29/2006 10:22:05 AM
> > >>Subject: Re: Eliot, India and Translation
> > >>
> > >>Robert wrote:
> > >>
> > >>"The statement "Language is not words, it is culture, it is even
> > >>consciousness itself." does not bear out in my experience.  After I
> > >>came out of surgery for my stroke, I had consciousness but I could
> > >>not speak; therefore language is NOT consciousness."
> > >>
> > >>One could argue that you were not fully conscious, as language is
> > >>only possessed by conscious human beings, unless one subscribes
> > >>to the meow bow-wow theory of language, which has some validity,
> > >>as inarticulate groans are expressive and often get results. Define
> > >>language. Define conscious. Lifetimes are devoted to doing both!
> > >>Diana
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
>
>
> -- 
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