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Peter

>> It seems to me, then that an appropriate response to such an
experience is not a set of meanings, but another poetic construction.

This has to be right but I think through the dialectical circuits of (1)
intellectual criticism and (2) the feeling body:

"...if on the other hand, you are considering identity of content, and,
on that basis, are transcending such particular existences, then there
is at once, in principle no difference between inner and outer.  No
experience can lie open to inspection from the outside; no direct
guarantee of identity is possible.  But our knowledge of sameness, and
our ways of communication, are indirect and inferential.  They must make
the circuit, and must use the symbol, of bodily change.  If a common
ruler of souls could give to any one a message from the inside, such a
message could never be handed on but by alteration of bodies.  The real
identity of ideal content, by which all souls live and move, cannot work
in common save by the path of external appearance."

Jonathan


-----Original Message-----
From: T. S. Eliot Discussion forum. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of Peter Montgomery
Sent: 30 April 2006 09:48
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: 'The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock' was Re: OT: USk
Castle


No. Not contra. Obviously your experience of the poem is different from
mine, so your response to the poem is different from mine. I don't see a
poem as some kind of marble block out of which has to be carved an
essay.

I look for effects the artist tries to achieve, and for the responses to
those effects. Those are sensory/emotional factors, not thoughts.
Obviously the poem has VERY seductive sensory elements (mermaids?).
Those elements have seduced readers into endless interpretations, none
of which satisfy, leaving the seductory elements to draw them back again
and again. If the poem has meaning it is a meanng which is FELT, not
THOUGHT, with the immediacy of the odour of a rose. It seems to me, then
that an appropriate response to such an experience is not a set of
meanings, but another poetic construction.

We neither agree nor disagree.
our approaches differ.

Cheers,
Peter
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dunja Seselja" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 7:24 PM
Subject: Re: 'The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock' was Re: OT: USk
Castle


> --- cr mittal <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > Ha ha! I've really enjoyed this witty tug of war --
> >   reminds me of a scene or two from the 18th century
> >   Comedy of Manners, especially The Way of the
> > World.
> >   Keep it up, folks, as long as you agree to
> > disagree!!!
>
> hehe, i don't think Peter will agree on that though,
> he has to be contra :))
> >
> >   BTW, it's getting a little late here in Michigan.
> >   And I promise a lot more on Prufrock when the day
> >   dawns, and light dawns on me!  Amen!
>
> Oh just send, send, I'm so thirsty for any thoughts on Prufrock! Night

> here too, nighty night!
>
> Dunja
>
> >
> >   Cheers!
> >
> >   ~ CR
> >
> > Dunja Seselja <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >   Oh, all right, I've taken your question to be a
> > criticism of George's comment.
> > Seeing is always "seeing as", sorry.
> > PS
> > We can at least agree on that fact that we disagree
> > -
> > you see? :)
> >
> > --- Peter Montgomery wrote:
> >
> > > On what are we agreeing? That was just a question,
> > > not a speculation.
> > > P.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Dunja Seselja"
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 6:32 PM
> > > Subject: Re: 'The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock'
> > > was Re: OT: USk Castle
> > >
> > >
> > > > I was going to ask the same thing (finally we
> > > agree on
> > > > something, Peter :)
> > > > A monologue doesn't exclude another person being
> > a
> > > > part of the story.
> > > >
> > > > --- Peter Montgomery
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > So who is the "you" to whom he is talking?
> > > > > P.
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "George Carless"
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 12:36 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: 'The Love Song of J. Alfred
> > > Prufrock'
> > > > > was Re: OT: USk Castle
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Sat, Apr 29, 2006 at 11:56:16AM -0700,
> > > Dunja
> > > > > Seselja wrote:
> > > > > > > Hm, interesting, CR. I don't know if I
> > could
> > > > > agree
> > > > > > > with that completely, have to think about
> > it
> > > > > first...
> > > > > > > What confuses me a bit is the fact that
> > the
> > > poem
> > > > > > > brings with "Let us go then, you and I..."
> > -
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > line, as well as the last one, brings in
> > the
> > > > > story
> > > > > > > another person... so I've always had a
> > > feeling
> > > > > the
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Does it, though? I've always thought it felt
> > > more
> > > > > like an internal
> > > > > > monologue; I don't know that much of the
> > poem
> > > > > occurs outside of
> > > > > > Prufrock's head.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --George
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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