Print

Print


"Making a point" is the point of a very long history of writing culture
in English and I assume other Western forms of discourse.  In fact, it
IS the point of the discourse.  The assumption is that the interlocutor
will then make their own point and a debate has developed, and the
convention also assumes that debate can lead to understanding.  It is
not at all discourteous or arrogant as long as it is grounded in reasons
and/or evidence.  As you say yourself, you were making a point.

There are other cultural versions of writing.  The Hacker _A Writer's
Reference_  makes that point in several places and notes that students,
for example,  need to be aware of the conventions of American writing.

And there is nothing about it that is either sacred OR profane:  it is
simply a kind of discourse.  It is the pronouncement of views for which
no reason is given that conflicts with it, not the focus on the point
(which is, as in your own message) the point.  
Cheers,
Nancy

>>> [log in to unmask] 04/04/06 1:34 PM >>>
'there is no reason you should read with
an American accent unless you are reading an American
text and want to
sound American.'

This was a point I was trying to make, though from a
different route.  And so does the mis-spelled 'Tyger'
appear to me from the perspective of the poem and the
poet. 

'It would not occur to me to be
> offended if you wrote on
> them from a position of knowledge.'

I dont think any one who has acquired the ability of
introspection would feel offended to learn something
which he doesn't know.  I am always grateful to those
from whom I learn something.  But humility is a virtue
not only of the learner but also of the teacher in any
meaningful discourse.  When a discourse gets reduced
to making a point as most of the internet discussions
turn into, it loses any sanctity for me.

--- Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> There is no single "British" sound and any
> individual "British" sound is
> not original--certainly not whatever you learned in
> school.  So you must
> mean BBC English or the standard taught in English
> schools?  You won't
> find it in Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, or
> even much of England. 
> Try Yorkshire, for example.  So there is no reason
> you should read with
> an American accent unless you are reading an
> American text and want to
> sound American.  
> 
> I am responding here also to your post about Carrol.
>  By the standard of
> linguists, I am an amateur about history of the
> language.  But I did
> study it for two years as a doctoral student and
> studied under Sherman
> Kuhn.  I write on Scottish literature, and that
> means constantly using
> what I do know about what is presumed to be
> "British" English.  Does the
> fact that I do know quite a lot about it mean that
> my nose is up in the
> air if I speak about what have studied and work on? 
> Because, you see,
> Carrol is not an amateur. 
> 
> There can be no doubt that you know immense amounts
> on topics of which I
> am ignorant.  It would not occur to me to be
> offended if you wrote on
> them from a position of knowledge.
> Nancy
> 
> >>> [log in to unmask] 04/03/06 8:40 AM >>>
> A question worth pondering would be to ask if Blake
> had used such different spellings in other places. 
> Just as the word 'Vrka' has sense associations
> related
> to its sound, Blake might have thought the word
> 'Tyger' brought in similar sound associations the
> standard 'Tiger' wasn't adequate for.   
> 
> I had difficulty in switching over my accent to
> standard American for a long time after I moved to
> the
> US.  I still feel affected when I have to use words
> as
> can't, aunt. (i can't see them as a different
> dialect). For, I am used to their original sounds (I
> mean, the way the British say them), and
> particularly
> when I read *English* poetry I find myself a little
> uncomfortable when I read it aloud with the American
> accent.  
> 
> 
> --- Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> > As in tire and tyre?
> > P.
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Vishvesh Obla" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 6:02 AM
> > Subject: Re: 'Tyger' and 'Vrka' (Was: 'Mind forged
> > menacles' and spelling )
> > 
> > 
> > > Peter,
> > >
> > > I would say Tiger and Tyger sounded differently
> at
> > > least for Blake.
> > >
> > > --- Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > So where does fixed spelling come into it, as
> > > > opposed to fixed sound?
> > > >
> > > > P.
> > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > > From: "Vishvesh Obla"
> <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 6:30 AM
> > > > Subject: 'Tyger' and 'Vrka' (Was: 'Mind forged
> > > > menacles' and spelling )
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Here is more: (it could be very interesting to
> > > > associate Blake's 'Tyger' with the sanskrit
> > 'Vrka')
> > > >
> > > > 'For the reason why sound came to express
> fixed
> > > > ideas,
> > > > lies not in any natural and inherent
> equivalence
> > > > between the sound and its intellectual sense,
> > for
> > > > there is none, -intellectually any sound might
> > > > express
> > > > any sense, if men were agreed on a
> conventional
> > > > equivalence between them; it started from an
> > > > indefinable quality or property in the sound
> to
> > > > raise
> > > > certain vibrations in the life-soul of the
> > > > human-creature, in his sensational, his
> > emotional,
> > > > his
> > > > crude mental being. An example may indicate
> more
> > > > clearly what I mean. The word wolf, the origin
> > of
> > > > which is no longer present to our minds,
> denotes
> > to
> > > > our intelligence a certain living object and
> > that is
> > > > all, the rest we have to do for ourselves: the
> > > > Sanskrit word vrka, "tearer", came in the end
> to
> > do
> > > > the same thing, but originally it expressed
> the
> > > > sensational relation between the wolf and man
> > which
> > > > most affected the man's life, and it did so by
> a
> > > > certain quality in the sound which readily
> > > > associated
> > > > it with the sensation of tearing. This must
> > > > havegiven
> > > > early language a powerful life, a concrete
> > vigour,
> > > > in
> > > > have given one direction a natural poetic
> force
> > > > which
> > > > it has lost, however greatly it has gained in
> > > > precision, clarity, utility.'
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
(http://www.searchforlight.org/Arushi/FuturePoetryCh2/Future%20PoetryCh2.htm
> > > > )
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> > protection around
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -- 
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.3/296 -
> > Release Date: 3/29/2006
> > >
> > 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com