Dear Nancy, 

Not to sound flippant, but I wonder on what criteria
you distinguish between what you call psuedo-poetry
and bad poetry; and what then is your distinction
between poetry on the one hand (as opposed to pseudo)
and good poetry on the other (as opposed to bad) based
on ? And is poetry | psuedo-poetry   |  good
poetry|bad poetry your only set of distinctions? 

Eliot distinguished between poetry, prose and verse;
sensibly tripartite, I think, and intelligently
seizing on a valid (but not necessarily easy to
enunciate or illustrate) distinction between poetry
and verse. On the other hand, he also wrote that the
worst poetry, to him, is that in which poet does not
know what he wants to say, and doesn't know that he
doesn't know what he wants to say (he said it better
than that). He elaborates on this in UPUC and in some
of the essays in OPP. 

As for rap, I did not read the linked article, so
these remarks are off the cuff, but much of what I
have heard (very little, thankfully) is brutish,
vulgar, degrading, simplistic, impoverished and
violent; in short, neither music nor poetry. 

I have yet to see anyone who can substantiate their
critical remarks about rap with quotation, elucidation
and comparison attempt to raise it to the level of

Yours, Jennifer 

--- Nancy Gish <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> I sympathize with your concern for quality, but I
> think one can have
> more than one category.  I distinguish between
> poetry and pseudo-poetry,
> and between good and bad poetry.  The Medieval
> ballads were also all
> music, as was much of the poetry in Greek plays.  I
> don't see why that
> is an exclusive category.
> But I agree that rap is not a new form of poetry.  I
> think it is a new
> kind of poetry in a long oral tradition.  Consider
> Linton Quasi Johnson
> or Benjamin Zephaniah.  This British style is also
> music as well as
> poetry.
> Nancy
> >>> [log in to unmask] 09/21/05 1:09 PM >>>
> I'm sorry I just don't see how rap can be classed as
> poetry.  it is MUSIC.  people have always listened
> to
> bad music.  it does not, to me at least, point to a
> new form of poetry, although I acknowledge that this
> is just my opinion.
> Beat poetry is an entirely different thing.
> Tabitha
> --- Peter Montgomery <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > 
> > > Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 16:42:08 -0400
> > From: Eric <[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: Poetry at the End of Print Culture
> > 
> > Just got a copy of this. I think you'll find it
> > useful. Gioia has helped
> > a lot by providmg a lot of evidence and leads. The
> > writer does miss the
> > retrieval of recitativo secco in rap and hip-hop
> and
> > slam, but gets much
> > else. Down we go into the "foul rag and bone shop"
> > of the language. The
> > logos lives.
> > Enjoy.
> > Eric
> > 
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