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' I see echoes of Swift in TSE's image of women: for
instance both of them were bothered by the fact that
women had bodily functions '

I remember a stanza from Swift that Lawrence quoted
often which went like this:

'but celia s***s...' (to rhyme with spits)

Can't remember a similar kind of repulsion in Eliot
though !  Can you throw some light?


--- "Loucks, James" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Hi Ken,  --  It's been entertaining to see the
> brouhaha over the last decade over TSE, involving as
> it did M. Hastings, Tom Paulin, Raine, et al. I
> think it was a salutary thing because it aired
> issues that had been lurking and needed to be outed,
> including TSE's alleged misogyny.
>  
> Speaking of which, I see echoes of Swift in TSE's
> image of women: for instance both of them were
> bothered by the fact that women had bodily functions
> (Swift once mentioned "periodic filth," if I recall
> correctly). Maybe Swift, like TSE, suffered from
> horror feminae? 
>  
> I  think more needs to be done with TDE's links with
> Augustan figures such as Swift and Pope (whose
> couplets were "pastiched" in the TWL Ms.).  --  Jim
>  
> James Loucks, Ph.D.
> Ohio State University-Newark
> 1179 University Dr.
> Newark, OH 43055-1797
> [log in to unmask] 
> 740.366.9423
> fax 740.366.5047
>  
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: T. S. Eliot Discussion forum. on behalf of Ken
> Armstrong
> Sent: Sun 11-Sep-05 6:11 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Craig Raine (was Re: Echoes of Eliot)
> 
> 
> 
> Jim,
> 
> Thanks for this reference to Raine. I took my Sunday
> "free time" and went
> directly to the library to scope out his _In Defence
> of T S Eliot_.  Who
> could resist that title, at least on this list? I'm
> not sure in what way he
> is arch in his defence of TSE -- it all seemed
> rather measured and calm
> (and witty--hope that doesn't mean he's a neocon!  :
> ) --  but he does have
> the merits of being logical and factual to a fault. 
> Very enjoyable. And in
> the often-thought-but-ne'er-so-well-expressed dept.,
> he's read my mind and
> better said it on C. Ricks.  His piece on Salinger
> and _Catcher in the Rye_
> shone real light, too. A pleasure to meet Mr. Raine.
> 
> Cheers,
> Ken A.
> 
> At 12:11 PM 9/10/2005, you wrote:
> >Kate -- I think Kathleen Raine got into religious
> verse in her later years
> >(or am I thinking of another woman poet?). Do you
> know if she is related
> >to Craig Raine, an arch-defender of TSE?  --  Jim
> Loucks
> 
> 
> 



		
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